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Featured What make you think they were NOT honest ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by chinu, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
     
  2. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    People, even great people, can believe in falsehoods.

    I'm betting these people were honest about their beliefs and experiences. But they were either wrong, misunderstood, or their legends overwhelmed the truth.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It is my understanding of human nature that it all depends on the person, perhaps some honestly believed that they taught and some didn't exist as described but were cast into the role, sometimes hundreds of years, later and perhaps some simply saw it as a good, cheep way to con their way to fame (and fortune)

    tyler-perrrys-house-106_1024xx3000-1688-0-142.jpg
     
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  4. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    How misunderstood ? & How overwhelmed ?
     
  5. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    I don't think it is a matter of honesty. Can you place yourself in any of the times in which they lived and know with certainty what people believed then - about almost anything - and how power structures, and literacy, might have affected what people tended to believe?
     
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  6. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, they might have been honest - if they even existed. But those who wrote about them after the fact centuries later or still talk about them today - their honesty might be called into question.
     
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  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Well, they may well have misunderstood their experiences (this happens all the time, why would it not happen for 'spiritual experiences'?). Then, they could well have been misunderstood by those to whom they were speaking (Jesus talked in parables, which were frequently misunderstood, for example).

    Then, after their death, the story of what they said (whether misunderstood or not) would grow over time. People would write about it and attribute those writings to the original followers (this happened in 1st and 2nd century Christianity, for example). Some of those writings would then be taken as authoritative. In this way, the legend grows, getting further and further from the truth.

    We see simpler cases of this even today. Many people claimed to have seen Elvis after he died, for example. Stories and conspiracy theories grow, especially when there is no reliable source of information for most people. And the sources of information in the past were *much* less likely to be valid than they are even today, where it is easy to check the facts.
     
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  8. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Even today you can find people that are not good at critical thinking, skepticism etc. and besides that, believing in God(s) and the supernatural were a lot more common due to the lack of science. Also you have people today that believe that Jesus or God spoke to them, people that see UFO, Yetis or those that believe in astrology, magic stones, numerology, ghosts and so on... I don't believe that these people in all cases were lying, and also I don't think it's certain how much they actually claimed themself, compared to what others have claimed in their name.

    But as everyone else these "great" persons could have been mistaken, misinterpret things, been misunderstood as well. But I think they were sincere in their beliefs and probably thought that they could change the time in which the lived to something better and most likely they inspired hope for people.
     
  9. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    A couple other possible scenarios:

    - there are well documented medical conditions that HONESTLY feel to the patient like visitations.

    - if a person takes a large dose of a psychedelic drug they will HONESTLY feel like they've had revelations.
     
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  10. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I was going to touch on medical conditions and psychotic drugs but couldn't think of a way of putting it that wouldn't offend some people
     
  11. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    One of them may have been stating what is true, but disagreements in what they said show that they cannot all have been saying what is the truth.
     
  12. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    "Their legends overwhelmed their truth" ... excellent line!
     
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  13. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Especially back in a world where such things were almost completely misunderstood.

    Where almost everything unexplainable was attributed to supernatural beings, gods, demons, spirits, angels, whatever.
    Tom
     
  14. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Nothing.
     
  15. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    People have 'religious' revelations all the time. People hallucinate all the time. Deluded people are a dime a dozen. People believing they have special revelations are common.
    All it takes is a chance constellation of circumstances to bring one of these people to prominence.
     
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  16. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    What makes you think they were honest ?
     
  17. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Fake prophets existed as well, so I believe it's to believe the message before believing
    the messenger, if we have doubts in the message, I'm not against any religion here but
    just explaining my point of view, for example if a message telling me that the fire is sacred and
    I can ask it anything I wish, then I wouldn't believe the message and hence the messenger.
     
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  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Those that believe their own revelations are honest, if deluded.
     
  19. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I don't know them. I've no reason to see them either as honest or dishonest. However, their honestly is not in question. They could have been mistaken, deluded, schizophrenic, etc...

    That's no judgement against the but people believed in things that it is found out later are not true. Accepting they are no better, no worse than anyone else, I don't take the claims of anyone to the bank without something besides their claim to support it. Just not a good idea. I'm even willing to accept they were very sincere in their claims. That doesn't mean what they claimed was true.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I have no idea who was or wasn't honest.
     
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