What kind of proof can change people’s minds? About God.

[McBell]

There is a bunch of things that I don’t believe it, but I have a clear idea on what would convince me,

I don’t believe in ghosts, Aliens, Longness monster, etc. but I have a clear idea on what would convince me, (I don’t even require direct observation)…………I often wonder why can’t atheist answer this kind of questions clearly and directly.

I have answered it clearly and directly.

Here it is again....

An all knowing, all powerful entity will not only know what it would take to convince me, but have the power to implement it.
Now since I remain unconvinced, the obvious conclusion is either god does not exist, or it is not important enough to god for me to know he exists.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

There is a bunch of things that I don’t believe it, but I have a clear idea on what would convince me,

I don’t believe in ghosts, Aliens, Longness monster, etc. but I have a clear idea on what would convince me, (I don’t even require direct observation)…………I often wonder why can’t atheist answer this kind of questions clearly and directly.

i would truly like to hear the answer, in a clear understandable way (like a child could understand)

since the Atheists won’t answer, would you give it a try please?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I have answered it clearly and directly.

Here it is again....

An all knowing, all powerful entity will not only know what it would take to convince me, but have the power to implement it.
Now since I remain unconvinced, the obvious conclusion is either god does not exist, or it is not important enough to god for me to know he exists.

where did you answer it clearly? (for me, clearly, would have specific details and be easy for someone like me to understand. No big words please. )

 

[leroy]

I have answered it clearly and directly.

Here it is again....

An all knowing, all powerful entity will not only know what it would take to convince me, but have the power to implement it.
Now since I remain unconvinced, the obvious conclusion is either god does not exist, or it is not important enough to god for me to know he exists.

there are other alternatives
1 maybe God knows that nothing will convince you.

2 maybe God will convince you someday in the future

 

[leroy]

i would truly like to hear the answer, in a clear understandable way (like a child could understand)

since the Atheists won’t answer, would you give it a try please?

an answer for what?

 

[McBell]

there are other alternatives
1 maybe God knows that nothing will convince you.

2 maybe God will convince you someday in the future

There are hundreds if not thousands of other explanations.
Hence the word "obvious" in my post...

 

[McBell]

where did you answer it clearly? (for me, clearly, would have specific details and be easy for someone like me to understand. No big words please. )

How about you address what I posted instead of making it all about you?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

How about you address what I posted instead of making it all about you?

no

 

[Deeje]

An all knowing, all powerful entity will not only know what it would take to convince me, but have the power to implement it.

And what if he has evaluated each one of us to determine what kind of people we are at heart? And what if he is looking for people with a certain personality to become citizens of his incoming kingdom....(a governmental arrangement that I believe, will replace all failed human rulership on this earth).....does he know what his kingdom will look like if he allows those who stubbornly refuse to comply with his commands, access? Why would he issue those kind of people, entry, if all they will cause is more of what we see on earth now?

Disobedience to God’s commands is what got us into this mess in the first place. He has allowed humans the opportunity to see where self determination leads when free will is exercised to the detriment of others. He is looking for those who can exercise their free will within the parameters he set for it. If free will is without parameters, it leads to selfish chaos....like we see right now. If we want to do things “our way” and he wants us to do things “His way” then why would he want to include us in his plans? We have opportunity now to show him who we are.

Now since I remain unconvinced, the obvious conclusion is either god does not exist, or it is not important enough to god for me to know he exists.

Three Bible verses guide my thinking on this idea.....the words of Jesus.

John 14:6....”Jesus said:....“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

John 6:44, 65....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him.......This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Our search for God is determined by what he determines in his search for us....He is the one who either “draws” us or leaves us to our own devices.

If we are not “drawn”, then it means we do not have the qualities that God is looking for. He is vetting every single individual to see if they have the right qualities that will keep his kingdom peaceful.....what qualities?.....his choice will include those who are humble, willing to obey, mindful of how their behavior affects others....and those who demonstrate genuine love for the Creator, the planet, and appreciation for what he done to bring about an amazing outcome from what he implemented as a long term object lesson. We do not live this life for no good reason....it has a purpose.

How we emerge from this lesson is largely a matter of who we become as adult human beings....I believe that spirituality in humans is a result of something more inborn than acquired. That would explain why some are by nature more spiritually minded than others. This is true regardless of how they were raised. There are as many people raised as atheists who become seekers of God, as there are those raised in religious households who discard religion altogether.

We show God who we are by how we live, how we think, and what we do......and I believe that the lesson is nearly over.

 

[McBell]

And what if he has evaluated each one of us to determine what kind of people we are at heart? And what if he is looking for people with a certain personality to become citizens of his incoming kingdom....(a governmental arrangement that I believe, will replace all failed human rulership on this earth).....does he know what his kingdom will look like if he allows those who stubbornly refuse to comply with his commands, access? Why would he issue those kind of people, entry, if all they will cause is more of what we see on earth now?

Why indeed.
So then if god himself has chosen me to not have access what chance do you think you or anyone else has of convincing god otherwise?
And should it not be god with whom you should be convincing rather than me?

Disobedience to God’s commands is what got us into this mess in the first place. He has allowed humans the opportunity to see where self determination leads when free will is exercised to the detriment of others. He is looking for those who can exercise their free will within the parameters he set for it. If free will is without parameters, it leads to selfish chaos....like we see right now. If we want to do things “our way” and he wants us to do things “His way” then why would he want to include us in his plans? We have opportunity now to show him who we are.

sounds like you are saying he is looking for those who choose to be robots, instead of merely making everyone a robot.

Three Bible verses guide my thinking on this idea.....the words of Jesus.

John 14:6....”Jesus said:....“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

John 6:44, 65....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him.......This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Our search for God is determined by what he determines in his search for us....He is the one who either “draws” us or leaves us to our own devices.

If we are not “drawn”, then it means we do not have the qualities that God is looking for. He is vetting every single individual to see if they have the right qualities that will keep his kingdom peaceful.....what qualities?.....his choice will include those who are humble, willing to obey, mindful of how their behavior affects others....and those who demonstrate genuine love for the Creator, the planet, and appreciation for what he done to bring about an amazing outcome from what he implemented as a long term object lesson. We do not live this life for no good reason....it has a purpose.

Which brings us right back to you wasting your time with other mere mortal humans and should really be trying to change your never changing deities mind.

How we emerge from this lesson is largely a matter of who we become as adult human beings....I believe that spirituality in humans is a result of something more inborn than acquired. That would explain why some are by nature more spiritually minded than others. This is true regardless of how they were raised. There are as many people raised as atheists who become seekers of God, as there are those raised in religious households who discard religion altogether.

We show God who we are by how we live, how we think, and what we do......and I believe that the lesson is nearly over.

Again it sounds like you are saying god wants those who choose to be robots...

 

[Deeje]

So then if god himself has chosen me to not have access what chance do you think you or anyone else has of convincing god otherwise?

I didn't say that God has not chosen you....I said if we cannot follow God's instructions, but choose to do things "our own way", then I am saying that such a person will not be chosen for a place in his kingdom....
Its about qualifying...but only if you want what he is offering.....

To illustrate.....if you were an astronaut for example, and you applied for a space mission, what do you think you'd have to do to qualify for a place on that space ship?
If it was what you had wanted for a long time, would your own will get in the way by not wanting to follow the strict protocol that was necessary for all astronauts to even be considered? It would mean vigorous training and top notch study, but if you wanted it, you'd do it....right?

Or, if you wanted to move to another country because you got a fabulous job opportunity, but it would mean sacrifices in order to live there, like learning the language, or eating food that you were not used to....would you let that stand in your way because you didn't want to put in the effort to learn that language or to eat the unfamiliar food? If it was a two year contract worth $4 million dollars.....would you think it was all too hard?

God is not asking much in return for a priceless reward. Obeying him is so easy because his demands are not difficult or harsh.

And should it not be god with whom you should be convincing rather than me?

I don't have to convince you or anyone else, of anything....you have to convince yourself and ask whether his offer is something you'd like to take advantage of....? Its offered to all, but not all are willing to put in the effort.

To illustrate again....imagine living in a world with no crime, no violence, no war, no selfishness or greed.....not because there is a man standing there with a sub-machine gun....but because all the people want peace and are willing to obey the directives of their Sovereign.
There will be no rebels there....and no robots either. Free will is a choice.....to exercise it in a way that benefits all, not just yourself.

I believe that we are programmed to live unending life, (no one wants to die) with no sickness, ageing or death (who enjoys being sick or getting old?)...in paradise conditions forever.....its programmed in us to want that life.....but none of us ever got to experience it.....it was taken away before we got the opportunity. But God didn't change his plans...he just took a detour to teach us how to drive our free will. Sadly, not everyone wants to learn to drive....
God tried to tell us, but humans demonstrated that they can't be told...they have to be shown what happens when they ignore the one who sets the boundaries.

sounds like you are saying he is looking for those who choose to be robots, instead of merely making everyone a robot.

We retain free will, so no robotics, just willing compliance with the rules set down to ensure that life for all will be the pleasure it was meant to be. With no one to spoil things for others. I wouldn't miss those kinds of people....would you?

Which brings us right back to you wasting your time with other mere mortal humans and should really be trying to change your never changing deities mind.

Its never a waste of time sharing knowledge and trying to point people in the right direction. Giving people information is all that my assignment entails.....what they do with it is up to them. God forces no one to obey him so it has to be a willing submission.
"You can lead the human to knowledge but you can't make him think...."

Its all about choices......ours and God's. We can work to qualify for our place....but only if we want to.

Again it sounds like you are saying god wants those who choose to be robots...

I guess its like living under the rule of a powerful dictator....get a bad one who is despised, and everyone suffers.....get a good one who is loved and respected, and everyone will benefit. Jehovah is the most benevolent dictator in existence....but he will not tolerate those who want to make trouble for others. Our obedience is all he has ever asked of us.....and its never too difficult.

 

[HeartNSoul19]

This is more a matter of a change in heart that might be required rather than reason or proof.

To the believer, the same world is full of proofs and evidences of God and His creation, and to the person who doesn't see (with the heart or inner eye), the same world is void of proof.

 

[firedragon]

The hell/heaven balance was getting way out of whack (technical term)

So, God decided that people needed proof that he existed.


He stopped time, but allowed that humans on earth could continue as if time still occurred.

He showed himself visibly to all humans, simultaneously (perk of being omnipresent)

He spoke: You want proof, well here I am. Any questions?

An atheist raises her hand, and asks: I could be dreaming. Everything has stopped moving, except people, and you’re standing in front of me. How do I KNOW that you’re really God?

God: I am the one who stopped time but allowed you to continue as if time still went on.

Atheist: Well, there is no proof that you did that.

God: How was it done then?

Atheist: It could have been a natural occurrence. I’m sure scientists are looking into it as we speak.

God: I am going to snap my fingers and plunge the universe into complete darkness for five seconds.

God *snaps fingers. Universe is in complete darkness for 5 seconds.

Light returns.

God: Do you believe now?

Atheist: Well, there is no proof that you caused it. It was very dark for a while and I couldn’t see anything.


Simultaneously to the above exchange, a Christian evangelical talks to God

Christian: I am patiently waiting for the 1000 year reign to begin, so I can rule over all those bad people, with you of course. When will that begin?

God: Ummm, who are you? I don’t know you.

Christian: But what about the rapture?

God: I said I don’t know you.

Christian: Well, let me talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit then. You can’t really be God if you don’t know me, I did so much in your name.

God: Are you still talking?


Similar conversations happened throughout the world.


God left, and returned the universe to where it was previous to his arrival.


All the people still had their same beliefs.


Nothing changed.

Kind of funny. Chuckled.

 

[HeartNSoul19]

I feel that this is more a matter of the state of one's heart rather than something that would come from proof or reason.

If the heart is not open, all the poof in the world won't help and when the heart is open, no proof or reason is needed.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Kind of funny. Chuckled.

thanks,

i try my best to keep things light

 

[HeartNSoul19]

In terms of changing someone's mind about God, two things I can think of are 1 -- to pray for them and 2 -- to show in our actions those Godly attributes like loving kindness, generosity, truthfulness, sincerity, forbearance, tolerance, patience, etc... to shine bright with that light in your heart in action will go far more than anything in the way of reason, ration, or proof.

In other words, faith is spread through sincerity and love in the heart rather than through intellectual concepts or reasoning...

Think of Christ... how did He attract the hearts? It was through that extreme brightness of the love (and all other heavenly attributes) he displayed and not through convincing people intellectually that His faith and way leads to Truth.