What Keeps You on the Straight and Narrow?

[ThePainefulTruth]

In situations where we act instinctively we act without making any conscious deliberate decisions. In other situations we do make conscious and deliberate decisions on how to act.

Name an act that isn't a pure conscious decision, or a reflex action that's a result of conditioning and training. In the grenade scenario, it could be either. If it or similar reactions was genetically pre-programmed, we'd be seeing a lot more examples with young children doing it. Police and military run into a fire fight due to training to get them to go against their instinct.

 

[ArtieE]

Name an act that isn't a pure conscious decision, or a reflex action that's a result of conditioning and training. In the grenade scenario, it could be either. If it or similar reactions was genetically pre-programmed, we'd be seeing a lot more examples with young children doing it. Police and military run into a fire fight due to training to get them to go against their instinct.

"a growing body of evidence suggests that, at our core, both animals and human beings have what Dacher Keltner at the University of California, Berkeley, coins a “compassionate instinct.” In other words, compassion is a natural and automatic response that has ensured our survival. Research by Jean Decety, at the University of Chicago, showed that even rats are driven to empathize with another suffering rat and to go out of their way to help it out of its quandary." Compassion: Our First Instinct

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I care about other people.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

"a growing body of evidence suggests that, at our core, both animals and human beings have what Dacher Keltner at the University of California, Berkeley, coins a “compassionate instinct.” In other words, compassion is a natural and automatic response that has ensured our survival. Research by Jean Decety, at the University of Chicago, showed that even rats are driven to empathize with another suffering rat and to go out of their way to help it out of its quandary." Compassion: Our First Instinct

That's a nebulous, unsubstantiated "growing body of evidence" for a poorly defined human characteristic, presented in a vacuum by someone with unstated credentials or even title, in social "sciences" at THE US Leftist Academic Center for Socialism, in an off-the-rails California, which is screeching bloody murder because the rest of the country is veering off from following its Marxist lead--and doing outstanding in the process, thank you.

 

[james blunt]

That's a nebulous, unsubstantiated "growing body of evidence" for a poorly defined human characteristic, presented in a vacuum by someone with unstated credentials or even title, in social "sciences" at THE US Leftist Academic Center for Socialism, in an off-the-rails California, which is screeching bloody murder because the rest of the country is veering off from following its Marxist lead--and doing outstanding in the process, thank you.

Virtue signalling

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Virtue signalling

I'm no Liberal Drama Queen or Social Justice Warrior, and was merely pointing out the bias and lack of substance in ArtieE's post..in a very restrained manner, I might add.

 

[tayla]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

This idea implies that atheists (for example) don't have moral sensibility. Who wants to try to prove this? I don't.

 

[tayla]

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I believe God created everything good and beautiful. I want to share in the goodness and beauty. I don't want ugliness and evil rattling around in my mind, drawing my attention to it. So I try to avoid putting it in there in the first place.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That's a nebulous, unsubstantiated "growing body of evidence" for a poorly defined human characteristic, presented in a vacuum by someone with unstated credentials or even title, in social "sciences" at THE US Leftist Academic Center for Socialism, in an off-the-rails California, which is screeching bloody murder because the rest of the country is veering off from following its Marxist lead--and doing outstanding in the process, thank you.

I believe there is more of such evidence, in other animal species too, to point out that we do tend to be more naturally social than you seem to think. Perhaps search for such?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I believe God created everything good and beautiful. I want to share in the goodness and beauty. I don't want ugliness and evil rattling around in my mind, drawing my attention to it. So I try to avoid putting it in there in the first place.

Or, if I may so suggest, by following the principle of Enlightened Self-interest, whereby we promote good order for ourselves, by promoting good order for all via our example.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I believe there is more of such evidence, in other animal species too, to point out that we do tend to be more naturally social than you seem to think. Perhaps search for such?

No, we are exceedingly social, but so are many species. But of all those species, we are the only ones who are fully self-aware, and not innocent. Our self-awareness forces us to recognize the results of our actions on others as if we were them.

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, we are exceedingly social, but so are many species. But of all those species, we are the only ones who are fully self-aware, and not innocent. Our self-awareness forces us to recognize the results of our actions on others as if we were them.

Sorry, you can't actually say that dogmatically, since we just haven't got that far into the minds of any species close to us or further away. We do know that many seem to exhibit a whole ranger of behaviours not so dissimilar to those we display, and hence we will likely have to conclude that they might have just the same feelings as us in many ways.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Sorry, you can't actually say that dogmatically, since we just haven't got that far into the minds of any species close to us or further away. We do know that many seem to exhibit a whole ranger of behaviours not so dissimilar to those we display, and hence we will likely have to conclude that they might have just the same feelings as us in many ways.

Yes, there have been several studies on animal self-awareness, and there've been some surprises. Here's an article with a (non-exhaustive I'm sure) list:
10 Animals with Self-Awareness

The magpie was the biggest surprise for me:

But...self-awareness is not what I'm calling full self-awareness. Koko the gorilla still refers to herself in the third person, IOW as "Koko". But the real difference is they don't have the resources to develop the idea of the ubiquity and permanence of death. Even if some animals were capable of that, not having that knowledge prevents them from becoming fully self-aware. Even humans aren't able to grasp that concept until we're around 2-3 years old--part of the reason for the terrible twos.

I'm not saying some animals aren't capable, and dolphins may have it. If so, they, like us, would be capable of morality, which some AIs may eventually develop. If so, that entitles them to equal rights with us, something that won't go down easy for some. Meanwhile, we give them our most humane treatment.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, there have been several studies on animal self-awareness, and there've been some surprises. Here's an article with a (non-exhaustive I'm sure) list:
10 Animals with Self-Awareness

The magpie was the biggest surprise for me:

But...self-awareness is not what I'm calling full self-awareness. Koko the gorilla still refers to herself in the third person, IOW as "Koko". But the real difference is they don't have the resources to develop the idea of the ubiquity and permanence of death. Even if some animals were capable of that, not having that knowledge prevents them from becoming fully self-aware. Even humans aren't able to grasp that concept until we're around 2-3 years old--part of the reason for the terrible twos.

I'm not saying some animals aren't capable, and dolphins may have it. If so, they, like us, would be capable of morality, which some AIs may eventually develop. If so, that entitles them to equal rights with us, something that won't go down easy for some. Meanwhile, we give them our most humane treatment.

I can't remember which of the language-taught primates it was that won me over as to their closeness to humans, but I can remember seeing one video where a related primate was struggling with a task and the other (Kanzi perhaps), with much more language ability just seemed so frustrated and almost distraught that this other primate failed to understand, even when coaxed by him (or her). And it was written in the face and mannerisms of this more advanced primate. Many other examples where animals just do surprise us as to what is going on in their minds. And I don't place that much significance on the concept of death, particularly when religions no doubt formed from our inability to understand nature - and hence ascribing agency to so many natural events.

Rhesus macaques - my avatar - and it is a surprise that magpies might pass the mirror test but I doubt they are the most intelligent of bird species.

 

[ArtieE]

I'm no Liberal Drama Queen or Social Justice Warrior, and was merely pointing out the bias and lack of substance in ArtieE's post..in a very restrained manner, I might add.

The article I quoted was full of substance and interesting information. I would be interested if you can provide any articles proving the conclusions in the article I provided wrong.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The article I quoted was full of substance and interesting information. I would be interested if you can provide any articles proving the conclusions in the article I provided wrong.

The ones who disagree are lacking in empathy. It's not your problem.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The article I quoted was full of substance and interesting information. I would be interested if you can provide any articles proving the conclusions in the article I provided wrong.

He used psychobabble to quantify compassion, something I'm not likely to a serious article on any more than I'd be able to find one about a love instinct.

The ones who disagree are lacking in empathy. It's not your problem.

Well, Judgement Day has arrived.