What Keeps You on the Straight and Narrow?

[George-ananda]

My views are more biologically based, in that we are social animals who benefit from pro-social behaviors. And I have this thing called a "conscious," and it drives me to do as little harm to others as I reasonably and possibly can. After that, my views jump to "no victim, no crime" and I don't really care (which is where the philosophical debates can flourish, such as with asking is it good to follow the law for the sake of following the law).

Interesting how both our worldviews dovetail. I think there may be a greater reason than coincidence there; like something inherent in the design.

 

[Revoltingest]

part of me wants to be good....sugar and spice and everything nice
(and no ....I'm not female .....I really am a guy)

So you say.
But now when I think of Thief, I think of....

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

A superb question, and there's an answer--enlightened self-interest. You promote good-order via moral behavior (honoring the EQUAL rights of ALL to life, liberty, property and self-defense to be free from violation through force or fraud) by example.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think maturity teaches you that being good is the only way to actually feel good, hell or no hell.

The Baha'i Faith teaches that hell is distance from God, and heaven is closeness to God. When you perform a good deed you are then close to God and you feel good.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't think morality is dependent on religion or any deities.
If you've ever observed teenagers, peer pressure works just fine without religion.
So what I'm saying that while beyond a certain level of innate empathy and compassion, most humans would probably "stray", any type of punishment works to deter that, religious or otherwise.
The fear of being rejected and abandoned by one's peer group or tribe should be sufficient for most.

The peer group for teenagers is not all that moral. The same can be true for everyone else.

 

[George-ananda]

The Baha'i Faith teaches that hell is distance from God, and heaven is closeness to God. When you perform a good deed you are then close to God and you feel good.

I like the Baha’i Faith.

 

[Vee]

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I ask myself how I would like to be treated if I were in the situation of the other person. If I don't want people to steal from me, I can't steal from them. If I don't want people to be rude to me, I'm not going to be rude to them. If I think other people don't have the right to judge me, who am I to judge them? etc, etc, etc

 

[Jainarayan]

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Not for me, I don't fear anything. Except maybe those little space aliens and centipedes. Yeesh! *shivers* [there will be no sleeping tonight even with the lights on]

It's not fear of God, because in my beliefs God does not judge or punish.

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I don't know... I really don't know. Maybe ego? I want people to think of me as a good guy. I want to be the man my dogs think I am. That's good enough for me to try to behave.

 

[sealchan]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I have found that there are inner drives and impulses that my personality has had to deal with and that in dealing with these inner drives and impulses I have become more able to act morally as a result. I think that modern developments and ideas about human psychology have offered new ways to understand how we can manage ourselves and those inner influences which are problematic to our personalities' assumptions.

We can tell what are the rough spots in our personalities when we act selfishly or fearfully or with a great deal of emotion beyond what we later deem was necessary. Something in us is misaligned or under-developed and this leads us into all sorts of morally complicated choices. Understanding one's natural inclinations of personality type, how that triggers your "shadow" and how to manage and nurture your personality by feeding all of its needs in a balanced way. In part this means finding those challenges that allow you to choose some level of control rather than to suffer a loss of control.

My way has been to take my personality type (as determined by Jung-derived personality tests such as the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and the Kiersey Temperament Sorter) seriously and look at the choices I make in my life and the consequences...think about the feedback that people (especially significant others in my life) give me and take it seriously too. I have studied my dreams and found my faults set to mini-dramas that I cannot deny.

Introspection is key here and also, perhaps, a tried and true wisdom for how to open up and admit to yourself what yourself, others and your unconscious has to say about who you are and what you choose to do.

On another note, I am an over-eater though I have not been too obese. I took on the challenge of lowering my weight (I'm 5'9'' and once weighed in at about 200 lbs) by about 40 lbs over the course of many years (over six). The two lessons I have learned that works wonders to reduce those momentary desires and cravings that on a daily basis keep one at the weight one is at are:

• Exercise at a cardio level for 20+ minutes
• Find the short-term consequence of choosing to eat something you shouldn't eat
• Substitute for what you want in order to enable the ability to choose what you need

Exercise at a cardio level is apparently the only way to improve one's metabolism such that one can do more with less food. Not exercising means getting your weight down is not going to work in the long run. Exercise is the suffering you choose that allows you to avoid the suffering that having a body that is not used will bring you.

I have found that my sleep is greatly affected by what I eat. Also what I eat might cause me a headache if I eat too much. These two things have allowed me to very slowly loose my cravings for food, even free food, because I immediately can bring to mind the suffering I will experience later if I choose to eat something now.

I have gradually substituted foods making my way towards a more fulfilling diet that doesn't leave me with headaches or sleepless at night. I substituted carbonated water for soda, favorite protein foods for dessert, eat more earlier in the day rather than have a large dinner, low carb cauliflower rice for rice, low carb zucchini (zoodles) for high carb pasta, etc... The result is that I now get a regular night's sleep, through exercise I am stronger than I have ever been and as I mentioned I am now down 40lbs from my peak weight and my weight is stable.

All this is to say that we have instinctual needs and drives which MUST be satisfied. If we fight them or ignore them then we make choices which impact our health or our moral character. The belief that I am a personality with certain strengths and weaknesses who needs to work on the weaknesses and feed the strengths and never stop doing this has helped me to be a better person in my self and in my interaction with others.

 

[Ponder This]

I wonder if anybody has written a psychological profile on the God of the Bible who values human life so much that he drowns a whole planet full...

The answer to that question is yes and you can go google your favorite version.
But if you want to speculate with more relevance than wonder if God fears Hell.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

With Baha'is that assumption is totally incorrect. We see a golden future of peace and prosperity for all humanity, world peace, an end to poverty and oppression and seeing that future we work diligently to pursue it for the betterment of all humankind. Fear doesn't even come into it. its a desire for others to be happy and prosperous that drives us to try and create a better world.

 

[Gohelwan alien Vega 17b]

Salixincendium I like your topic. I don't personally keep on the straight and narrow from fear of consequences. For me being benevolent is entirely due to my culture. It's completely a cultural upbringing thing. I was told by everyone around me when I was being raised up that good things come to those who do good for others. Simple as that. Although I was not raised in a culture where they believe in karma my close relatives had the conceptualization that what goes around comes around. This was just taken as the way of reality, it was taken for granted. No direct heaven-hell consequences idea connected to it. I like seeing others thoughts on this one.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Salixincendium I like your topic. I don't personally keep on the straight and narrow from fear of consequences. For me being benevolent is entirely due to my culture. It's completely a cultural upbringing thing. I was told by everyone around me when I was being raised up that good things come to those who do good for others. Simple as that. Although I was not raised in a culture where they believe in karma my close relatives had the conceptualization that what goes around comes around. This was just taken as the way of reality, it was taken for granted. No direct heaven-hell consequences idea connected to it. I like seeing others thoughts on this one.

I am as wary of people who say they put others before themselves as I am of those who put themselves at the top, whether they actually think that's what they're doing or not. Yes, I suppose there are those who actually do so, but only in this world, expecting a reward in the next for their sacrifice, which is actually a self-deception in most circumstances. An agnostic or atheist who throws himself on a hand grenade to save his buddies would have to be the most genuine act of self-sacrifice.

 

[ArtieE]

An agnostic or atheist who throws himself on a hand grenade to save his buddies would have to be the most genuine act of self-sacrifice.

Or just an instinctive reflex that evolved and was selected for because the behavior causes the least amount of harm and the greatest amount of survivors.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Or just an instinctive reflex that evolved and was selected for because the behavior causes the least amount of harm and the greatest amount of survivors.

So the ones that don't throw themselves on one just have slow reflexes?

 

[ArtieE]

So the ones that don't throw themselves on one just have slow reflexes?

Or there is some other reason.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Or there is some other reason.

Exactly, like "No, I choose not to do that today. I'll let them take their chances with me as opposed to my certain death."

But the original point was that it's the most genuine act of self-sacrifice if it's an atheist or agnostic that did so.

 

[ArtieE]

But the original point was that it's the most genuine act of self-sacrifice if it's an atheist or agnostic that did so.

That depends on whether it was a conscious deliberate act or just instinct. It can be just instinct for both theists and atheists.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

That depends on whether it was a conscious deliberate act or just instinct. It can be just instinct for both theists and atheists.

If it's just instinct, it's not a decision at all then. If that's the case, then everything we do, good or bad, is pre-programmed--IOW, there's no free will and we're all just purposeless puppets on strings, slaves to our DNA.

 

[ArtieE]

If it's just instinct, it's not a decision at all then. If that's the case, then everything we do, good or bad, is pre-programmed--IOW, there's no free will and we're all just purposeless puppets on strings, slaves to our DNA.

In situations where we act instinctively we act without making any conscious deliberate decisions. In other situations we do make conscious and deliberate decisions on how to act.