What Jesus said! Jesus Himself? How, What and where?

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Answer this one at least. Dont ignore it.

Tell me brother. Who named the "four gospels" by the titles "Gospels"?

Gospels means good news, Quran is emphasized to be good news, tell me why does the Quran address people of the book, by your methodology, it should say "people of the books".

 

[firedragon]

No, but God knows these things are in infancy Gospels and yet reveals them verbatim. There is a reason.

Its not "Infancy gospels". Its "Infancy gospel of Thomas". And you are WRONG. It is not revealed "Verbatim".

 

[firedragon]

Gospels means good news,

Every tom, dick and harry knows that.

That doesnt answer my question. If you dont know the answer, be a bit humble and say "I dont know". Its simple.

Tell me brother. Who named the "four gospels" by the titles "Gospels"?

I will even give you an example.

Who named Gospel of Mark as "Gospel of Mark"?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Maybe it doesn't matter to you Tony, but it matters to others. I do not put faith on something so blindly.

But that does not mean you have no right to. You have all the right and there is nothing really bad about having faith. ITs just an academic exercise.

It see it is not blind faith, as I have the Quran and Baha'i Writings confirming the Message of Jesus the Christ.

I hope they do find something that will help those that require this further material evidence.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

It see it is not blind faitg, as I have the Quran and Baha'i Writings confirming the Message of Jesus the Christ.

Yep. The Quran confirms the message of Jesus, but does not say "Put your faith on the New Testament". That is why I am questioning the Bahai methodology of picking what Jesus actually said and did in the New Testament.

 

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Salam firedragon,

I'm going to say your methodology of isolate and attack doesn't work. Surah Abu Lahab by itself is not incredible. It means hardly anything. But if you keep in mind all of Quran, and what has discussed of Satan and his companion avatar among humans, and keep in mind the battle between good and evil, and see the Quran holistically, it's a miracle and the words are miraculous.

The same way I see a chapter in Quran in it's place, I see how Quran was revealed not in a vacuum but kept in mind what is both corrupted and not corrupted in the Bible. If you do this, amazing qualities of Quran open up.

Nothing in the Gospels can be proven if you isolate. But keep in mind the Quran and insights from the chosen ones, and everything opens up.

This is true of even other revealed books from God like the Kybalion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yep. The Quran confirms the message of Jesus, but does not say "Put your faith on the New Testament". That is why I am questioning the Bahai methodology of picking what Jesus actually said and did in the New Testament.

I wish you all the best in that quest.

Can I help in any way? Maybe I can ask how else do we know what Jesus said but for the Bible?

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Salam firedragon,

I'm going to say your methodology of isolate and attack doesn't work. Surah Abu Lahab by itself is not incredible. It means hardly anything. But if you keep in mind all of Quran, and what has discussed of Satan and his companion avatar among humans, and keep in mind the battle between good and evil, and see the Quran holistically, it's a miracle and the words are miraculous.

The same way I see a chapter in Quran in it's place, I see how Quran was revealed not in a vacuum but kept in mind what is both corrupted and not corrupted in the Bible. If you do this, amazing qualities of Quran open up.

Nothing in the Gospels can be proven if you isolate. But keep in mind the Quran and insights from the chosen ones, and everything opens up.

This is true of even other revealed books from God like the Kybalion.

Brother. We are talking about the Bible. You are talking about the "Gospels" in the Bible. I understand Quran bi Quran. It is THE methodology of tafsir I follow. But that is not relevant to the question.

So I asked a question, several times but you are not answering.

Tell me brother. Who named the "four gospels" by the titles "Gospels"?

I will even give you an example.

Who named Gospel of Mark as "Gospel of Mark"?

 

[Link]

Brother. We are talking about the Bible. You are talking about the "Gospels" in the Bible. I understand Quran bi Quran. It is THE methodology of tafsir I follow. But that is not relevant to the question.

So I asked a question, several times but you are not answering.

Tell me brother. Who named the "four gospels" by the titles "Gospels"?

I will even give you an example.

Who named Gospel of Mark as "Gospel of Mark"?

I've read the Gospels but never looked into their naming so I don't know and won't even be bothered to look this up. From what I understand Christians believed they were inspired by God and written by disciples, but I believe God revealed something through Jesus to each disciple. They paraphrase each other and compliment each other.

 

[firedragon]

Can I help in any way? Maybe I can ask how else do we know what Jesus said but for the Bible?

See, when you say "we", that includes me in my perspective. For me, the Bible as a whole is absolutely not necessary for the Islamic theology. Absolutely not necessary. So I dont need to know what Jesus actually said for the theology of Islam. The theology of Islam is codified in the Qur'an.

It is you who needs the Bible because your whole theology is based on the Bible, the Tipitaka, the Hindu scripture, etc, etc, etc and is culminated in the Bahai scripture be it the Qayoom al asma, AL Kithab al Akdhas, or any other bahai scripture.

So I hope you understand that I dont need these for the theology I need.

 

[firedragon]

I've read the Gospels but never looked into their naming so I don't know and won't even be bothered to look this up.

Thats blind faith if you are not bothered.

Thanks.

 

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Thats blind faith if you are not bothered.

Thanks.

I have different methodology when it comes to God's words and words of his chosen. I don't even look at chains anymore when it comes to ahadith. I don't care for the Ilmel Rijaal nonsense for example.

God knows what to say and so do his chosen, in a way, that gives insight. And God speaks in a superior way. Have you read the Psalms of David and Solomon. There are incredible prayers them from God taught to humanity.

I don't think people can speak that way personally.

 

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See, when you say "we", that includes me in my perspective. For me, the Bible as a whole is absolutely not necessary for the Islamic theology. Absolutely not necessary. So I dont need to know what Jesus actually said for the theology of Islam. The theology of Islam is codified in the Qur'an.

It is you who needs the Bible because your whole theology is based on the Bible, the Tipitaka, the Hindu scripture, etc, etc, etc and is culminated in the Bahai scripture be it the Qayoom al asma, AL Kithab al Akdhas, or any other bahai scripture.

So I hope you understand that I dont need these for the theology I need.

Bahais shouldn't let you become oblivious that holy books exist everywhere in every place in every language, and Quran gives you the tools to recognize words from God.

 

[firedragon]

I have different methodology when it comes to God's words and words of his chosen. I don't even look at chains anymore when it comes to ahadith. I don't care for the Ilmel Rijaal nonsense for example.

Brother. that's blind faith. Your whole argument is that "I have faith, and that's that, that's all I need".

And now its going into a completely different topic.

 

[firedragon]

Bahais shouldn't let you become oblivious that holy books exist everywhere in every place in every language, and Quran gives you the tools to recognize words from God.

It is not about me and my theology mate. It is about you and the others who pick the Bible for their theology that is chosen in this topic. For me as I already said, the Quran is the yardstick for my theology.

So you just did a red herring for argument.

 

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Brother. that's blind faith. Your whole argument is that "I have faith, and that's that, that's all I need".

And now its going into a completely different topic.

Quran says about Mohammad (s) "the one who believes in God's words" and praises Mariam (a) for believing in God's books and testifying to them.

I am not ashamed of faith in God's words such as the Gospels.

 

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It is not about me and my theology mate. It is about you and the others who pick the Bible for their theology that is chosen in this topic. For me as I already said, the Quran is the yardstick for my theology.

So you just did a red herring for argument.

Quran is not revealed and was not revealed in a vacuum. You still don't grasp this and maybe never will.

 

[firedragon]

Quran says about Mohammad (s) "the one who believes in God's words" and praises Mariam (a) for believing in God's books and testifying to them.

I am not ashamed of faith in God's words such as the Gospels.

It is not about being ashamed. It is about an academic discussion.

You said the Gospels are God's words. I presume you meant the four canonical gospels of the New Testament.

So you will just say "I have faith". So I shall withdraw from that discussion. Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

Quran is not revealed and was not revealed in a vacuum. You still don't grasp this and maybe never will.

Maybe you will never answer a single question objectively and directly because your whole argument is "I have faith".

 

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Maybe you will never answer a single question objectively and directly because your whole argument is "I have faith".

Brother one of the signs the Gospels are from God is how trinity is not even hinted in there and Mohammad (s) Prophecy clearly is and Quran talks about believers seeing Mohammad (s) in what they find of the Torah and Injeel among them.