What is your view on Patents, knowing doctors pledged to heal, not kill

[Deeje]

Maybe we should stop paying our doctors when we're sick and instead pay them when we're healthy?

No one minds paying for medical care, but its the size of the fee for the service, that can break the bank....especially if all they do is give you pharma drugs that can often make you sicker. Sometimes the side effects are worse than the ailment they are supposed to be treating.

Misdiagnosis is also increasing as auto-immune disorders become more commonplace. Orthodox medicine has no real treatments for many of those disorders. A friend of mine was treated with a very potent drug treatment that gave her severe osteoporosis, and then the treatment for the osteoporosis had severe pain as a side effect.... she is now on opioids for the pain.....how ridiculous! These doctors are killing us.

I would much rather take the unorthodox approach and use natural medicines for illness. I have had much better success and actually experienced cures rather than just treating symptoms and being a slave to the drug companies for the rest of my life.

Orthodox medicine would still be my choice for broken bones or emergency surgery. We need them both so I would regard the natural medicine as complementary rather than alternative.

 

[Heyo]

Orthodox medicine would still be my choice for broken bones or emergency surgery. We need them both so I would regard the natural medicine as complementary rather than alternative.

The problem is that you need to be doctor to decide what is better. And often times those alternative medicines that are not proven to not work are not proven to work. Few people are interested in studies about alternative medicine, supplements or diets because you can't patent those. So your only information is self tests and anecdotal evidence.
One hint are the track records of some disciplines (where they are available): dermatology and psychology are notoriously bad (but for psychology the "alternatives" are even worse) and chronic pain relief.
Auto-immune disorders are also hit and miss for both sides.

And let's not forget what people want from their practitioners. Many want to be given a cure and won't do anything themselves.

 

[Valjean]

Well I think people should give Big Pharma a break over this.

The industry has worked its balls off, in a unique collaboration with governments and universities, to get us life-saving - and economy-saving - vaccines, in record time. Nothing as fast as this has ever been done in the history of medicine.

It seems all some people can do now is whine about how it might have been done even better and attack people's motives.

Excuse me if I do not join in.

American Big Pharma wasn't being altruistic. It saw a profit-making opportunity and ran with it.
Big pharma is quick to cite the high cost of research and development, to justify it's high prices, but fails to mention that much, if not most of it, is publicly funded. It also drops production of less-profitable drugs, like antibiotics and orphan drugs.

Big Pharma isn't there to serve any public good. It exists to serve stockholders.

 

[exchemist]

American Big Pharma wasn't being altruistic. It saw a profit-making opportunity and ran with it.
Big pharma is quick to cite the high cost of research and development, but fails to mention that much, if not most of it, is publicly funded. It also drops production of less-profitable drugs, like antibiotics and orphan drugs.

Big Pharma isn't there to serve any public good. It exists to serve stockholders.

This, again, strikes me as attacking motive while taking the result for granted.

 

[Heyo]

This, again, strikes me as attacking motive while taking the result for granted.

(Big) pharma is successful in producing some drugs cheap and en masse. That's why we allow capitalism, it is successful in what it does.
The question is if there might be a better (or at least cheaper) method. E.g. we could give more money to universities and smaller research facilities and we could demand to have word in how the patents are treated. Isn't competition considered to be a good thing in capitalism?

 

[McBell]

We need them both so I would regard the natural medicine as complementary rather than alternative.

Natural medicines run into the same problems of greedy pushers as alternative medicines and contemporary medicines.
I have literally lost count the number of times I have seen weed advertised as a cure all miracle drug.

 

[exchemist]

(Big) pharma is successful in producing some drugs cheap and en masse. That's why we allow capitalism, it is successful in what it does.
The question is if there might be a better (or at least cheaper) method. E.g. we could give more money to universities and smaller research facilities and we could demand to have word in how the patents are treated. Isn't competition considered to be a good thing in capitalism?

Well indeed, that's the virtue of a mixed economy. Market forces can do a lot of the heavy lifting, and they do make sure citizens can get a lot of what they want, and plenty of variety, in most aspects of life. But there are areas where market forces don't work or tend to lead to perverse outcomes. So we need strict regulation of markets and we need supplementary processes too.

 

[Deeje]

Natural medicines run into the same problems of greedy pushers as alternative medicines and contemporary medicines.
I have literally lost count the number of times I have seen weed advertised as a cure all miracle drug.

I believe I have already mentioned this Mestemia.....this is a very one sided argument for big pharma as @Heyo has mentioned. Patents are everything to the drug barons. Studies are not done because (heaven forbid) cheaper natural medicines that actually cure a health issue rather than fool people with symptom control, would be a huge hit to their bottom line.

But those who profit from ill health are found on both sides. Their the motive is greed but people must do what they feel is right. Our own trust in any treatment is a huge factor in whether it ‘works’. Double blind studies would not be needed if that wasn’t true. Science does not understand the placebo effect and tries to eliminate it....but their own experience is that it works for many people. You can’t patent that, so you must dismiss it.

As far as cannabis is concerned, a little research will reveal the ugly side of big pharma’s heavy handed approach in using the law to back up its horrible agenda. In Australia, where medicinal cannabis is now legal as long as it’s through prescription, some are finding that it helps so much more than artificial chemical concoctions and with little or no side effects. But the cost is prohibitive and for us, (like the US) medications are ridiculously expensive and we are locked into the orthodox medical system financially. But if complimentary medicines were at least on offer for people to try for themselves, (equally funded) I know which ones would benefit patients more....and so do they.

The problem is, they can’t patent a plant, so they take a component of a plant and invent a drug with that beneficial component as it’s base, and then they can ask whatever they like for something they invented. Their research will result in a medicine that will control symptoms but not actually “cure” anything.....that is the business model.....design drugs that will keep customers dependant for life, and ensure their income stream.

The worst cases I heard about with orthodox medicine run amok, was with children with intractable epilepsy. Medicinal cannabis was found to keep many of these children seizure free, for the first time in their lives, when pharma medications were useless and reduced their quality of life even more. When parents were sourcing their own medicinal cannabis supply illegally, (because this harmless medicine was demonised for decades because of the lies told by big pharma) the children, despite obvious success with their tinctures, were taken from their parents as if they were dangerous criminals, and put in hospital and back onto useless pharma drugs. I can only imagine the trauma for both the children and their parents.

Another parent with two daughters suffering with Crohn’s Disease were often close to death with pharma drug treatments. When cannabis was tried, both girls improved dramatically, but the prohibitive cost moved the father to grow his own plants to supply their medicine. Some idiot found out that he was doing that and dobbed him in to the police and he was arrested and his medicinal crop seized.....what a disgusting abuse of power! There was no regard for the fact that his girls were enjoying life for the first time and now had to go back to virtually useless pharma drugs.

All over the world, people are coming to understand how beneficial this God-given medicine is. Those who inferred its “dangerous drug” status are now looking a little stupid and are hypocritically breaking their necks to produce cannabis based medicines to cash in. What a sick joke! But isn’t this typical of the world we live in? Greed and lies drive everything in the business world and we are basically at their mercy, which doesn’t really exist.

In a world of incredible scientific achievements, the treatment for cancer has basically remained unaltered for decades. Chemo-therapy kills more patients than it saves. It is a multi-billion dollar a year cash cow for big pharma who constantly requests money for research that never results in much headway for cancer patients.

Cannabis OTOH has resulted in many cures with patients who were told to go home and get their affairs in order, trying medicinal cannabis as a last resort and finding themselves cancer free and staying that way for many years to come. Only a very small percentage who go down the chemo trail end up surviving, because cannabis, unlike chemo drugs, does not compromise the immune system, but utilises it.

How awful to go through the torture of chemotherapy, to see your bank balance disappearing, and losing your battle anyway....

It’s not a “cure all” and never claims to be....but at least it helps the body to heal itself in many instances with no unwanted side effects.

 

[McBell]

I believe I have already mentioned this Mestemia.....this is a very one sided argument for big pharma as @Heyo has mentioned. Patents are everything to the drug barons. Studies are not done because (heaven forbid) cheaper natural medicines that actually cure a health issue rather than fool people with symptom control, would be a huge hit to their bottom line.

But those who profit from ill health are found on both sides. Their the motive is greed but people must do what they feel is right. Our own trust in any treatment is a huge factor in whether it ‘works’. Double blind studies would not be needed if that wasn’t true. Science does not understand the placebo effect and tries to eliminate it....but their own experience is that it works for many people. You can’t patent that, so you must dismiss it.

As far as cannabis is concerned, a little research will reveal the ugly side of big pharma’s heavy handed approach in using the law to back up its horrible agenda. In Australia, where medicinal cannabis is now legal as long as it’s through prescription, some are finding that it helps so much more than artificial chemical concoctions and with little or no side effects. But the cost is prohibitive and for us, (like the US) medications are ridiculously expensive and we are locked into the orthodox medical system financially. But if complimentary medicines were at least on offer for people to try for themselves, (equally funded) I know which ones would benefit patients more....and so do they.

The problem is, they can’t patent a plant, so they take a component of a plant and invent a drug with that beneficial component as it’s base, and then they can ask whatever they like for something they invented. Their research will result in a medicine that will control symptoms but not actually “cure” anything.....that is the business model.....design drugs that will keep customers dependant for life, and ensure their income stream.

The worst cases I heard about with orthodox medicine run amok, was with children with intractable epilepsy. Medicinal cannabis was found to keep many of these children seizure free, for the first time in their lives, when pharma medications were useless and reduced their quality of life even more. When parents were sourcing their own medicinal cannabis supply illegally, (because this harmless medicine was demonised for decades because of the lies told by big pharma) the children, despite obvious success with their tinctures, were taken from their parents as if they were dangerous criminals, and put in hospital and back onto useless pharma drugs. I can only imagine the trauma for both the children and their parents.

Another parent with two daughters suffering with Crohn’s Disease were often close to death with pharma drug treatments. When cannabis was tried, both girls improved dramatically, but the prohibitive cost moved the father to grow his own plants to supply their medicine. Some idiot found out that he was doing that and dobbed him in to the police and he was arrested and his medicinal crop seized.....what a disgusting abuse of power! There was no regard for the fact that his girls were enjoying life for the first time and now had to go back to virtually useless pharma drugs.

All over the world, people are coming to understand how beneficial this God-given medicine is. Those who inferred its “dangerous drug” status are now looking a little stupid and are hypocritically breaking their necks to produce cannabis based medicines to cash in. What a sick joke! But isn’t this typical of the world we live in? Greed and lies drive everything in the business world and we are basically at their mercy, which doesn’t really exist.

In a world of incredible scientific achievements, the treatment for cancer has basically remained unaltered for decades. Chemo-therapy kills more patients than it saves. It is a multi-billion dollar a year cash cow for big pharma who constantly requests money for research that never results in much headway for cancer patients.

Cannabis OTOH has resulted in many cures with patients who were told to go home and get their affairs in order, trying medicinal cannabis as a last resort and finding themselves cancer free and staying that way for many years to come. Only a very small percentage who go down the chemo trail end up surviving, because cannabis, unlike chemo drugs, does not compromise the immune system, but utilises it.

How awful to go through the torture of chemotherapy, to see your bank balance disappearing, and losing your battle anyway....

It’s not a “cure all” and never claims to be....but at least it helps the body to heal itself in many instances with no unwanted side effects.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

 

[Deeje]

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

Was that the point you were making? If so....my pleasure....