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What is your view on Patents, knowing doctors pledged to heal, not kill

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by stvdv, May 5, 2021.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    What is your view on Patents, knowing doctors pledged to heal, not kill (I assume directly as well as indirectly)?

    Short (6m30s) but clear points on this
     
  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Patents are essential for the encouragement of invention and are in themselves an eminently reasonable idea.

    I do not see that the mission of doctors has anything to do with patents.
     
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  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Patents were once an incentive to innovate but they have become a method of maintaining monopolies and securing income for big companies. We don't have to get rid of them but we have to handle them more creatively.
     
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  4. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Seems reasonable. Unless greediness takes over, as explained in the video, which makes it very reasonable to reassess patents IMO

    IMO: There is a connection for sure
    There has been a huge delay due to patents business greediness in vaccine production, costing probably thousands of lives, hence the connection
     
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  5. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Delay? It seems it was only last week that people on this forum were insisting these vaccines were unsafe to take because they had been developed too quickly. So which is it? :shrug:
     
  6. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    It one of those can't live with them and can't live without them things. Yes, they are driven by greed, but without the patent incentive that guarantees a return on their investment we might not have the life saving drugs we have. Notwithstanding the fact that so many people must go without these because of the high cost, and like any other business, raise the price on a whim.
     
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  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Amazing how the profit motive has overwhelmed society, to the extent that people have come to consider it the sine qua non of human motivation. People's very ego-identity is equated with wealth. It's society's prime status-marker. Failing to take advantage of a profit-making opportunity is a Neoliberal sin.
    "Blessèd be the avaricious...."

    It wasn't always so.
    Jonas Salk didn't patent the polio vaccine. Flemming didn't patent penicillin. Dr Banting's team did patent insulin, to keep it from the pharmaceutical companies, but sold the patent to their university for $1.00 each, then allowed manufacturers free access to it.
     
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  8. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    That is very clearly explained in the 6m30s video
     
  9. Saint Frankenstein

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    If you're referring to drug patents, it's not physicians who create those drugs. It's scientists working for pharmaceutical corporations (basically drug designers working for drug companies; your doctor is just the gatekeeper to getting those drugs).
     
    #9 Saint Frankenstein, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Perhaps it is more accurate to say that some doctors are more like brainwashed "pimps" for drug companies...?

    These doctors are trained at drug company funded teaching facilities to know their pharmacology...but is pharmacology the true definition of medicine? The premise of "do no harm" in medicine is overstepped when they have to include a long list of possible side effects of their patent medicines. People assume that "side effects" are an expected part of drug therapy, but in actual fact, these side effects are the body's way of alerting us to adverse reactions to that medication...things that will make us sicker. If other drugs are prescribed to eliminate an unwanted side effect, what could be the effect long term? Often the combination of these medicines has led to death....either accidental or deliberate.

    "Figure 1. National Drug-Involved Overdose Deaths—Number Among All Ages, by Gender, 1999-2019. More than 70,000 Americans died from drug-involved overdose in 2019, including illicit drugs and prescription opioids. The figure above is a bar and line graph showing the total number of U.S. drug overdose deaths involving any illicit or prescription opioid drug from 1999 to 2019. The bars are overlaid by lines showing the number of deaths by gender from 1999 to 2018 (Source: CDC WONDER).
    [​IMG]

    The more drugs that are produced, the more deaths are recorded....higher for males than for females.

    For the most part, the medical profession's main aim is to curb or control symptoms, not to "cure" ailments. "Cures" do not fit their business model, and it is obvious by the cost of patent medicines that money is the incentive for manufacture. Their objective seems to be to create dependency for their drugs, rather than to facilitate remedies. Treating symptoms without curing the ailment is a way to guarantee a steady income.

    The other saying that is often heard is....."Let food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food".

    "Although many patients are convinced of the importance of food in both causing and relieving their problems, many doctors' knowledge of nutrition is rudimentary. Most feel much more comfortable with drugs than foods, and the “food as medicine” philosophy of Hippocrates has been largely neglected. That may be about to change. Concern about obesity is rocketing up political agendas, and a growing interest in the science of functional foods is opening up many therapeutic possibilities. . . .

    Folate may thus be a leading contender for panacea of the 21st century. Addition of folate to foods might reduce birth defects, vascular disease, and heart disease—and the Americans favour fortifying bread with folate. But folate being involved in so many of life's fundamental processes not only leads to its possibilities as a panacea but also to the prospect that “messing around with folate” could do extensive harm. The folate used in food fortification is not a natural co-enzyme, and nobody knows the long term effects of exposing whole populations to the unnatural folate.

    There is thus great potential for good, some possibility of harm, and much uncertainty. The question of fortifying foods inevitably becomes highly political, and the politics of nutrition are just as complex as the science."

    “Let food be thy medicine...”

    When considering any approach to treatments of disease, people need to do their research and avoid charlatans, as these exist in both orthodox medicine and in unorthodox therapies. Results should be the decider and now more than at any other time in history, can we research all the therapies available and evaluate their effectiveness. Many people are waking up to the fact that they have been cheated out of a better quality of life by the greed of big pharma.
     
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  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Then they turn to holistic medicine.....
     
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  12. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thanks for your clear reply. Seems quite correct to me

    Once I met a doctor who told me that Big Pharma offered them huge commissions (he was not speaking of just a few thousand dollars; 1 or 2 extra zeroes were added) IF they 'dance' with Big Pharma. I heard the same story from another doctor.
     
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  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I met 1 Tibetan doctor, who was not like that, and also an Ayurvedic doctor. Sadly never a Big Pharma "worshipping doctor"

    True

    That does not seem to be, but to me it's a clear fact. I bluntly asked one of my doctors, and he could not deny it

    True

    Tibetan doctors, Ayurvedic doctors, Homoeopathic doctors all say this. Never Big Pharma devotee doctors

    A few month ago, my doctor literally said "I don't know about impact of food, I can't help you with that", and she was even quite blunt about it. I am not interested in impact of diet on health. I told her "thanks for that, now I know enough"

    I do understand, it's nice to get 100.000 US dollars in your bank account for "going with the (money) flow"
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I trust holistic medicine and much more than Big Pharma medicine, too many side effects, and I know too much about their real agenda to trust them

    Of course their might be 1 or 2 trustworthy non-holistic doctors, but I yet have to meet them.
    But I am only 56 years of age, and I do believe in miracles.
    Although Jesus walking on water is easier to believe in for me
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    those are dead, I guess;)

    Very True. Nothing is completely negative. Scientists made some great discoveries. Hopefully they become now more humane, less greedy

    Exactly that was the main point of the video, thanks for pointing this out:)
     
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  16. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thanks a lot. I love positive stories.
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I do not see them as 'just the gatekeeper'
    An executioner is not completely 'not guilty' I think, even if he 'just' does his duty.
    He might need to do some extra prayers to overcome guilt feelings. Or suppress his feelings completely.
     
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  18. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Well I think people should give Big Pharma a break over this.

    The industry has worked its balls off, in a unique collaboration with governments and universities, to get us life-saving - and economy-saving - vaccines, in record time. Nothing as fast as this has ever been done in the history of medicine.

    It seems all some people can do now is whine about how it might have been done even better and attack people's motives.

    Excuse me if I do not join in.
     
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  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I have no problem with Big Pharma making Big Money or making vaccines

    I agree that thanks to Big Pharma & taxpayers many problems on health have been solved

    IF Big Pharma had just kept itself to making Big Business, I would be fine with it, but there is a fine line of course

    I see no need to "be excused for anything"; you made some valuable points:)
     
    #19 stvdv, May 6, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  20. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should stop paying our doctors when we're sick and instead pay them when we're healthy?
     
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