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Featured What is Your Understanding of God?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    This is always the biggie. When theists, deists, atheists, agnostics and others argue about the existence of God, somebody will always point out that unless we have an understanding of what that word "God" actually means, we can't have a real discussion at all. We all know (exhaustively, I'm sure) how frustrating and inconclusive those discussions are!

    So, let's try something else; let's see if we can lay out some simple ways to think about God that might help us understand how you see It or Him (or Her, Them, Etc.). Feel free to add to my simple overview.

    Questions about your God:

    1. Creation of the Universe
    • Did your God create everything, individually, or
    • Did your God just start everything (Big Bang-like) and then just watch as it unfolded?
    2. Existence of God
    • Does your God "exist" as a part of "the universe" (taken to mean "all that is," thus including God), or
    • Is your God not part of the space/time continuum that we understand to be "the universe?"
    3. Life
    • Did your God create all of the species we know of, or
    • Did your God just “start life,” and let evolution work in essentially the way the Theory of Evolution says?
    4. Involvement
    • Does your God listen to prayer, does He know what you are thinking, and
    • If He does, does He get involved in the world, and sometimes change things because you (or someone else, wished it, through what might seem like miracles to us?
    5. Death
    • Does your God get involved in what happens to you after you die (reward and punishment), or
    • Does your God offer you other physical lives (reincarnation), or
    • Does your God allow you to simply cease to exist in any way at all?
    6. Communication
    • Did your God inspire scripture so that you could know what you need to know, or
    • Does your God occasionally send messengers to tell you what His next plans are, as we mature, or
    • Does your God make Him/Her/It/Their Self known directly to you?
    7. Relation to Us
    • Does your God have anything like a "chosen people," favourites that He prefers, (and are there other Gods for other "chosen people") or
    • Is your God the God of everyone equally, without bias, or
    • Is your God especially devoted to you alone?
     
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    God is conceptual, so to understand it would be an enormous task as each person holds a unique perspective on what God is or isn't.

    As they say, "results will vary".
     
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  3. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes. That is, both in different ways. Material things unfold and develop and spiritual things are made whole and immediately.

    2) God transcends all that is yet is immanent to it and present in it all, yet His nature is not those things which He is immanent to and present in. The divine nature that is. The Person of the Lord Jesus Christ assumed a human nature and through that is in and part of creation, although He also possesses a divine nature and is a divine Person and so is uncreated also.

    3) I lean to the opinion that God made every species, I need to study more about how essences are given existence to be make more definite claims.

    4) He knows all, hears all, sees all, and is closer to me than my own soul. He does respond to prayers and "gets His hands dirty" so-to-speak, miracles and so on are common events.

    5) There will be a judgment with reward and punishment, there will be a resurrection but no reincarnation or transmigration of souls. Nothing that has ever been made will cease to exist, including us.

    6) Yes to all three.

    7) God has a chosen people after the flesh (destined to be the last nation subjected to Christ before the Judgment in my opinion, marked out as a sign of many things which are beyond the scope of the thread), His Elect (that is all those who will be saved by Him and eternally glorified), the Church which is His Bride also. He is the God of all without exception. He is particularly devoted to me inasmuch as He has particularly made me unique, but He has done so for all, and it is not separate from others so it is not alone.

    Addition to the questions (for it is necessary to specify that this is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not some undefined amorphous being who all know definitely): "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. Begotten, not made: consubstantial with the Father; by Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation, came down from Heaven: and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary: and was made man. He was crucified also for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate, and was buried. And on the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures. And He ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead: of Whose kingdom there shall be no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life: Who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified: Who spoke through the Prophets. And in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

    Of course also I understand God to be by nature uncreated, without beginning, immortal, infinite, eternal, immaterial, good, creative, just, enlightening, immutable, passionless, uncircumscribed, immeasurable, unlimited, undefined, unseen, unthinkable, wanting in nothing, all-ruling, all-surveying, all-knowing, life-giving, omnipotent, containing and maintaining the Universe making provision for all, penetrating all things without being mixed with them or being divided by them and being impenetrable by anything else, being His own rule and authority, and so on. Just added to further distinguish it from misunderstandings.

    Such is my opinion and understanding.
     
    #3 Lain, Dec 6, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't know. I sum it up as... is your god

    1. An experience (spiritual awakening, clarity, see the light)
    2. Creator (what exists must have a cause-causality argument)
    3. Love (and other strongly held values that changes people's lives)
    4. Inner sense of gratitude, openness, and such
    5. A distinct feeling of being one with all things, people, and nature
    6. Opening soul's Awareness without ego, duality, and such; that one Is not union with
    7. A Mystery (as opposed to mystery) of life

    Communication, concept of death, and others you mentioned I guess depends, really.

    It's a foregone conclusion.
     
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  5. Suave

    Suave Simulated character

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    God is life's Creator. Our genetic code's creator has left this mathematical pattern in our genetic code conveying to me the symbol of an Egyptian triangle as well as the number 37 embedded in our genetic code.
    Eight of the canonical amino acids can be sufficiently defined by the composition of their codon's first and second base nucleotides. The nucleon sum of these amino acids' side chains is 333 (=37 * 3 squared), the sun of their block nucleons (basic core structure) is 592 (=37 * 4 squared), and the sum of their total nucleons is 925 (=37 * 5 squared ). With 37 factored out, this results in 3 squared + 4 squared = 5 squared, which is representative of an Egyptian triangle.

    The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
    • May 2013
    • Icarus 224(1):228–242
    DOI:10.1016/j.icarus.2013.02.017
    Authors:

    Vladimir Shcherbak
    Maxim Makukov





    The mathematical pattern of the number 37 being used as a key factor for conveying an Egyptian triangle might be related to the gematria value of 37 appearing in the Hebrew language of Genesis 1:1.

    You shall have no gods before the creator of the heavens and earth, life's creator!

    [​IMG]

    God is the controller of simulations.

    There are five indications of us living in a simulation:



    1. Crude simulations and virtual realities have already been simulated by computers .
    A study conducted by Henry Markram and his team at the Blue Brain project have successfully simulated elements of a rat’s neocortical column, a complex layer of brain tissue common to all mammalian species. " Henry Markram at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne and his team built their model based on experimental measurements of rat brain slices. The simulation represents roughly 37 million synapses, or neuronal connections, in the brain region that receives sensory information from the whiskers and other parts of the body. Using the model, the team simulated rat whisker movement and saw similar neuronal responses to those observed in rat experiments."

    Computer model of rat-brain part - Nature.



    I realize a computer simulation of a rat's neocortical column is nowhere near the complexity of a computer simulation of an entire living human brain, but this does demonstrate at least a bit of progress so far being made towards an entire human brain's consciousness being simulated by a computer.

    Perhaps when scientists have figured out how to read the actual results of a consciousness simulation, then the simulation hypothesis will become a widely accepted theory.

    2. Wave-function collapse - Matter exists as a probability wave that collapses to a particle upon observation. Wave-function collapse would be expected in a simulated reality, because computational resources would be conserved by only simulating observed matter.

    3. Matrix glitches - Paranormal phenomenon might happen in a simulation where the rules governing the simulation are disrupted or changed

    4 Compromises in simulation algorithms - The human mind and the internet use very similar algorithms or methods to manage the flow of information., these methods often take short cuts to conserve energy or conserve computational resources, this might be expected in a computer simulation.

    Study: Internet, Human Brain Use Similar Algorithms to Process Info

    5. Computer code found in string theory.



    It might not be lights-out game-over after ionic currents cease flowing across the minds of God's favorite characters who might be re-simulated or re-animated in a virtual paradise world by God.
     
    #5 Suave, Dec 6, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Any concept we can have of God are just vain imaginings. God in Essence cannot be known by a finite creature. We will never know.

    All we can know of God is the Messengers, the Ones sent to tell us of God's purpose in creating us.

    Thus to the extent we try to understand the given 'Self of God' amongst us, by looking at the Messenger, their life and the Message they have given, then that is the extent we will get to know of God.

    Regards Tony
     
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  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Then would you agree that, because the messages are constantly changing, God is also constantly changing?
     
  8. Suave

    Suave Simulated character

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    Genetic coding has "a flexible mapping between codons and amino acids, and this flexibility allows modifying the code artificially. But once fixed, the code might stay unchanged over cosmological timescales. Thus, it represents a reliable storage for an intelligent signature, if that conforms to biological and thermodynamic requirements."

    The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code
    Vladimir I. shCherbak, Maxim A. Makukov
    Subjects: Other Quantitative Biology
    Journal reference: Icarus, 2013, 224(1), 228-242
    DOI: 10.1016/j.icarus.2013.02.017
    Cite as: arXiv:1303.6739
     
  9. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Could you please expand on this? If God is in control of everything, and things happen according to God's will, are we to suppose that God will allow your desire to overcome His will, so that he will consent to alter what He has done to please you, through a miracle?
     
  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Could you please expand on this? If God is in control of everything, and things happen according to God's will, are we to suppose that God will allow your desire to overcome His will, so that he will consent to alter what He has done to please you, through a miracle?
     
  11. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    All things are for God, He has made all for Himself, so I would not say "to please me." But as for prayer and how it works, perhaps I am wrong but with my current knowledge it is this: God determines everything by some kind of causation, fullness by eating, rain by clouds, and sometimes healing by prayer, some deaths by shooting, the shaping of a rock by water, and so on. Both the final result and the means of it happening are determined by Him to have that relationship before they exist. In this way nothing changes His will.
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Questions about your God:

    I do not have a God. I believe that there is just one true God, not a God for my religion and a different God for other religions. So, when I answer these questions I will be referring to the one true God I believe in.

    1. Creation of the Universe
    • Did your God create everything, individually, or
    • Did your God just start everything (Big Bang-like) and then just watch as it unfolded?
    I believe that God and Creation have always existed, as I explained in the following post:

    #150 Trailblazer, Today at 1:35 PM

    However, I believe that Creation has taken on different forms from the beginning that has no beginning. I believe that life on Earth evolved, I do not believe it was created as per the Genesis account.

    2. Existence of God
    • Does your God "exist" as a part of "the universe" (taken to mean "all that is," thus including God), or
    • Is your God not part of the space/time continuum that we understand to be "the universe?"
    I do not believe that God exist as part of the universe. God is one and alone, has existed forever, and is eternal. God is detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. God has no associates, no counsellors, none to compare to Him, none to rival His glory.

    3. Life
    • Did your God create all of the species we know of, or
    • Did your God just “start life,” and let evolution work in essentially the way the Theory of Evolution says?
    • God just started life and let evolution work in essentially the way the Theory of Evolution says?
    I believe that God started life in the sense that God set the process of evolution in motion but after that God let evolution work in essentially the way the Theory of Evolution says it works.

    4. Involvement
    • Does your God listen to prayer, does He know what you are thinking, and
    • If He does, does He get involved in the world, and sometimes change things because you (or someone else, wished it, through what might seem like miracles to us?
    I believe that God listens to prayers and knows everything we are thinking. I believe that God sometimes gets involved in the world in the sense that He can affect changes, but only if He chooses to and only if it is for human benefit.

    5. Death
    • Does your God get involved in what happens to you after you die (reward and punishment), or
    • Does your God offer you other physical lives (reincarnation), or
    • Does your God allow you to simply cease to exist in any way at all?
    I believe that everyone has a soul and that after the physical body dies the soul continues to exist in another form (a spiritual body) and the soul passes to the spiritual world (what Christians refer to as heaven). I do not believe we have a choice as to whether we will continue to exist or not; we will all continue to exist forever in the spiritual world because the soul is immortal.

    I believe the rewards and punishments in the afterlife will be the result of our beliefs and actions in this life. I do not know if God will be involved in reward and punishment in the afterlife.

    6. Communication
    • Did your God inspire scripture so that you could know what you need to know, or
    • Does your God occasionally send messengers to tell you what His next plans are, as we mature, or
    • Does your God make Him/Her/It/Their Self known directly to you?
    I believe that God sends Messengers in every age to reveal what He wants humanity to accomplish in that age.

    I believe that God inspired scriptures such as the Bible and maybe other scriptures but they cannot be considered the Word of God in the same way as scriptures that were written by a Messenger of God such as the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

    I do not believe that God ever makes Himself known directly to anyone. The Messengers of God hear God through the Holy Spirit and they know God in a way that no other human can ever know God, but even they do not know the Essence of God. Nobody can ever know the Essence of God.

    I believe that God is a personal God with a mind and feelings but I do not believe that God ever relates to us directly. I believe we can only relate to God through the Messengers of God. That said, I think we can get inspiration from God such as God revealing thoughts to our minds.

    7. Relation to Us
    • Does your God have anything like a "chosen people," favourites that He prefers, (and are there other Gods for other "chosen people") or
    • Is your God the God of everyone equally, without bias, or
    • Is your God especially devoted to you alone?
    I do not believe that God has any chosen people, favorites that He prefers. However, I believe that those who choose to recognize God’s Messenger are favored by God because rejecting God’s Messenger is akin to rejecting God.

    I believe that God is the God of everybody and that God loves everybody, believers and nonbelievers. I certainly do not believe that God is devoted to me alone.
     
  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    We are told God ways are consistent, it is us that are part of a evolving creation.

    Quran verses in support.

    33:62 [This is] the established way of Allah with those who passed on before; and you will not find in the way of Allah any change.

    48:23 [This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change.

    The Messengers bring the One same Truth, suited to our age and capacity.

    Regards Tony
     
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  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    In response to the question posed in the title, I guess my best response is, "whatever you want it to be."

    I have no hard and fast concept of God. I have no practical use for deity. If someone wishes to speak of God, I will determine what their understanding of God is and use that in context.
     
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  15. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Neither. The cosmic "whim" we call creation has been followed by God in the form of a man, the Avatar, appearing uncounted times.

    God is both immanent, part of creation and transcendent, beyond.

    My conception is that evolution is how species emerge and go extinc.

    There is no reward, heaven, and punishment, hell, as such. After death there is a past life review. People who have lived positive lives are very happy when reviewing the life and that is called heaven. People who have committed negative acts feel serious regret and that is called hell.

    After the review is done at some point we come back again to take the next step in our journey.

    There are no favorites. The "sun" shines equally on one and all.
     
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  16. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    God is not a human nor their consciousness first. Notified by my human consciousness....I don't speak for God.

    Basic advice first.

    God came from somewhere else first.

    Thinking tells me it came from the same place I had. But I never took gods journey O mass angel release.

    O angel as men humans gave God O the body a human defined purpose.

    I could think not until earths space zero God had filled in its heavens did I own a place to come into.

    Hence it made sense God was released from the same place I came into as I was the storyteller.

    Gods spirit is defined natural. It does not speak as it gives life of its spirit oxygenated water to my life the speaker. Human aware self.

    As conscious and aware I depend on the presence of the spirit holy place with me. I love its support. It however does not support me also.

    So the recorded human owned first father human told me what man had done to God. Changed it to emit a speaking voice of man.

    The scientist who lied claiming he spoke words for God about God.

    God never spoke. He reviewed his as a theist.

    So he conjured speaking spirit entities in our owned human image.

    Recorded life by God states.

    I love my holy spiritual father and mother. Father however invented science so his consciousness is more prevelant in my god life.

    I rely on a holy father and a holy mother to be holy consciousness as a human adult baby of their life.

    God as a lived human experience not science.

    Science is just the destroyer of anything. So science never spoke for God. Science is who seeks God. I exist with God so don't seek God to destroy God by science want to burn it up as resourcing.
     
  17. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    In my Advaita (non-dual=God and creation are not-two) understanding most of those questions don't apply as they come from a dualistic (God and creation are two) philosophy.

    Brahman/God is pure base consciousness. What that is, is a mystery to our minds. The universe is then a play/drama (Maya-temporary illusion) of God in which He separates Himself from Himself in Act I and returns Himself to Himself in Act II. It is a play with a happy ending.
     
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  18. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    O God O all mass bodies first owning no space within also owns in space changes. O blown up bodies as separation in reactions.

    Seen by human science. Warnings. Don't theory whole O states or else space allows them to blow up.

    Reasoning two bodies a separating God O sun hell and a God O a planet exist in two laws in the same one space.

    The law contracts expands space owns two laws first.

    I only came from one place the eternal being.

    Always existed. We left as the cold gas spirit filled back in separation..... space as a lowered changed converted mass. Gases water oxygen.

    Humans consciousness inherited it with Being first. Being changed their being.

    We separated from one eternal body as radiation now existed. We never owned it. We entered into the radiating creation.

    We live and die because radiation destroys us.

    We however still own the one spirit we were separated from when we die.

    We also don't care if science does not believe. We just advise our brother the eternal is not in creation and it's not science. So he should not believe as a science status.

    You are the only wrong thinker trying to make it belong to science.
     
  19. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Well crafted and thought provoking questions and concepts.

    Well done!

    A mixture, IMO. When He started everything, the DNA of creation directed what we see. So, He would be the author of it all. (Of course, I wasn't there and there isn't quite enough information given in our text to know the details.

    However, as with pollution, we can change the direction.

    He is outside of space and time though He can be involved in space and time

    Man as we know it, IMU, is the only species that we know exactly how my God created it. It isn't specific as to how the rest came into being other than He gave it the identity, purpose and destiny.

    Yes, my God listens to prayer. I believe He knows what we are thinking. Because He gave the world to mankind and desires a covenant partnership, He can and does change things when one prays according to His will. (I could pray for a flying unicorn to appear, but He wouldn't answer that one)

    It would appear that He does reward but we create our own punishment (to what extent is up for debate). Apparently we do get a physical body but not a "reincarnation".

    Yes
    Yes
    And pretty much anybody who wants Him to.

    Not really. He pretty much chooses everybody with no special preference. However, we each are chosen for a different function - like a body that each part has a special function.

    My God is devoted to pretty much everybody that wants Him to be part of their lives.



    I guess that is a "quick" summary subject to change. :)
     
    #19 KenS, Dec 6, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  20. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    A man. A human owning human Dna is the story theist about DNA beginning.

    Yet he is a whole human first expressing DNA. Humans owned life is first.

    If you didn't exist scientist man no theist would be telling lying human theist stories.

    As apes a next lesser biology proves by being an ape consciousness first it does not express it's awareness before it is bodily self owned. Human saying all identities as DNA history first.

    In theism you pretend you don't exist as a man by ignoring the equal human life of two humans first. Reading DNA is in human sperm. Human ovary.

    You can't pretend science if you detail a scientific truth first. About just humans thinking.

    As just a thinker and human egotist you lie.

    He congratulates himself as God the man who as a theist wrote the bible as a man talking about man's DNA in data...maths terms.

    But maths has to be used calculated formulated only by men as humans living to agree first.

    One man is every self A he says in man.
    mEn he says A to E is greater wisdom.

    1 2 3 4 5 he says status greater.

    Yet each self is only one man first who thinks.

    E for egotism expressed by a group just men.

    Now if we say eradicate the scientist from being you would look at Stephen Haw King as the warning.

    What men caused to biology of one man.

    But you don't.

    Yet human scientists say that ape types of human beings could not be intelligent enough to thesis about DNA. In science. Human expressed science. Yet still be a human living.

    Which is a summation no scientist and history of causes.

    What you mean personally in our human life.

    The destroyer teaching no man is God. O stone. Gods ark is stone.

    As stones DNA O God of science machines owns no DNA. O gods DNA is stone exact.

    Stone is God sealed cold stone as a radiation body. Stone is a radiation body as exact stone DNA stone as God O held form. Stone only.

    The only held fixed state body first. Just stone in maths O. God. One.

    O maths science meaning of numbers. O mass is first God the body. God the state stone as DNA is God first. Just stone.

    Human DNA is not God the stone.

    You have to be a human to be a scientist to on purpose think for thesis maths to observe see self human DNA owned only by humans as human DNA.

    The ape sciences next DNA maths God says nope stop thinking theorising here we don't theory lies like you do human man.
     
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