What is your belief about homosexuality?

[Storm]

We're just inconvenient. Assuming we're Even real.

Tolerate and love are very different things, how can one "tolerate" homosexuals and love them at the same time.

Also I wonder where bisexuals fall into this, I mean do we get "liked" instead of "loved"? Are we above or below "tolerate" since we can fake being straight?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You probably think God is filled with hate also because He sees homosexuality as a sin and an abomination.

Well, the God of the Old Testament does come across as vengeful and judgemental.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Here's a nice musical interlude:

 

[Storm]

Well, the God of the Old Testament does come across as vengeful and judgemental.

Certainly as portrayed by those who just believe what Pastor says instead of actually reading it.

Hey, @katiemygirl , would you care to share with us the sin of Sodom according to the actual Bible? It's Ezekiel 16:49, if you don't remember.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Certainly as portrayed by those who just believe what Pastor says instead of actually reading it.

I have read the Old Testament. Nasty stuff really.

 

[Storm]

I have read the Old Testament. Nasty stuff really.

Much of it, by modern standards, yes.

But it's much less disturbing when you can accept the simple fact that it's not so much a description of God or history as a history of one people's ideas about God.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But it's much less disturbing when you can accept the simple fact that it's not so much a description of God or history as a history of one people's ideas about God.

I wish more people understood that though.

 

[ChristineES]

What you don't realize that it isn't about tolerating the person who sins (or who you believe sins), it is tolerating the sins of people (their actions) Edited to add: We all sin. If we don't tolerate the sins of others, then why would God want to tolerate our sins? That is what we believe, as disciples of Yeshua.

 

[Midnight Rain]

What you don't realize that it isn't about tolerating the person who sins (or who you believe sins), it is tolerating the sins of people. Edited to add: We all sin. If we don't tolerate the sins of others, then why would God want to tolerate our sins? That is what we believe, as disciples of Yeshua.

Part of this is the ability to allow people the freedom to sin. When believers hinder the rights of homosexual and bisexual individuals simply because they are against the "sin" they have taken that step from "intolerance of the sin" to "intolerance of the person".

 

[ChristineES]

Part of this is the ability to allow people the freedom to sin. When believers hinder the rights of homosexual and bisexual individuals simply because they are against the "sin" they have taken that step from "intolerance of the sin" to "intolerance of the person".

And that happens too often. Also, I am a follower of Yeshua (Jesus), I will follow the commandments of Him. As I have said, I can tell someone about Him, if they wish to hear it, but it isn't my place to tell a non-Christian he or she is sinning until they accept Him.

 

[Storm]

I wish more people understood that though.

You and me both, brother.

 

[katiemygirl]

And that happens too often. Also, I am a follower of Yeshua (Jesus), I will follow the commandments of Him. As I have said, I can tell someone about Him, if they wish to hear it, but it isn't my place to tell a non-Christian he or she is sinning until they accept Him.

So when a non believer asks you if homosexuality is a sin, what will you say?

 

[ChristineES]

So when a non believer asks you if homosexuality is a sin, what will you say?

I would tell him or her what I perceive to be the truth. (I keep my thoughts to myself on a public forum, such as this one).

 

[Drolefille]

What you don't realize that it isn't about tolerating the person who sins (or who you believe sins), it is tolerating the sins of people (their actions) Edited to add: We all sin. If we don't tolerate the sins of others, then why would God want to tolerate our sins? That is what we believe, as disciples of Yeshua.

I understand the concept, although disagree that it actually works that way. It never seems to be tolerating the sins of anyone but the gay people in practice. But regardless the person in this thread said "tolerate the homosexuals" and then claimed to also "love" them. Not "tolerate the sin."

 

[Dr. Strange]

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nazz said: ↑

Where does the Bible speak of any of these things? The word "sodomy" is not even in the bible.
Bible Student Doesn't answer people on Ignore list or Apostates.

The bible does not say free will either but you can gather from the information that this is what it speaks of right when it says you have the choice to do what you want? Same with sodomy.Have you never read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Judges 19:22
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”


To show others that Genesis 19 does not speak of homosexuality, I direct others to Ezekiel 16: 49;

“49dNow look at the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were proud, sated with food, complacent in prosperity. They did not give any help to the poor and needy.” scripture

Now, I direct others to Jude 1: 7; “7Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice,*serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.g” scripture

“* [7] Practiced unnatural vice: literally, “went after alien flesh.” This example derives from Gn 19:1–25, especially 4–11, when the townsmen of Sodom violated both hospitality and morality by demanding that Lot’s two visitors (really messengers of Yahweh) be handed over to them so that they could abuse them sexually. Unnatural vice: this refers to the desire for intimacies by human beings with angels (the reverse of the example in Jude 6). Sodom (whence “sodomy”) and Gomorrah became proverbial as object lessons for God’s punishment on sin (Is 1:9; Jer 50:40; Am 4:11; Mt 10:15; 2 Pt 2:6).” scripture

Both of these passages clearly identifies what the sin was about. In Ezekiel 16: 49 the sin of Sodom is defined. 16: 49 says nothing that would infer that homosexuality is associated with Sodom. The one passage in the Bible that defines the sin of Sodom and that definition says nothing about homosexuality or that modern versions of the Bible's use of the word sodomy.


I now turn to Jude 1: 7, the above footnote identifies “unnatural vice” as the human desire to have sex with angels and mentions inhospitality. If you notice that the last sentence associates Sodom with “sodomy.' One has to believe that the Catholic Church somehow slips into the definition of, the sin of Sodom, sodomy (as defined by modern Christians as, homosexuality.) I say, slips this inappropriate, not biblical at all, misrepresentation of the Sin of Sodom into the footnotes. Notice the biblical information does not lend to identifying Sodom with sodomy as the sin of homosexuality. The passages simply do not have anything to do with homosexuality.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22) This does not speak of lying down next to someone.This is implying sexual intercourse.

Leviticus does indeed speak of a man lying with a man. Note that there is no reference to Lesbianism. But, also note that translating, “abomination” from

תּ.עֵ בָ ה

thuobe

[to]

abhorrence.
Now, let's look at the definition of “abhorrence.” http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/lev18.pdf

ab·hor·rence

abˈhôrəns,abˈhärəns/

noun

1. a feeling of repulsion; disgusted loathing.
   
   "the thought of marrying him filled her with abhorrence"
   

synonyms:

Hatred, loathing, detestation, execration, revulsion, abomination, disgust,repugnance, horror, odium, aversion

"the sight of drug dealers on his street fills him with abhorrence"

Google

Notice that a synonym of the word abhorrence is abomination. Whenever I see a modern version of the Bible translate (interpret) a word differently, than say, from the, Hebrew Interlinear Bible(OT), I think that there is, other than sound teaching from false prophets making things as they wish God to be and not what was intended.


Above, I quoted the Hebrew Interlinear Bible Leviticus 18: 22 demonstrating that “abhorrence” is the translation of the word, to'ebah (thuobe). It is evident that to'ebah really means, offensive to man and not to God. The phrase, to'ebah yhwh, specifically means an offense to God. The NAB1970 translates Leviticus 18: 22,23 differently using both abomination and adhorence, respectively. Leviticus 20: 25,26 defines what is an abomination;

Ye shall therefore put

difference between clean

beasts and unclean,

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/lev20.pdf .

Going back to 18: 22, once again this phrase about being unclean is used. The context of Leviticus is about what is unclean and what is offensive to man, not God.

The condemnation of homosexuality is not coming from Leviticus. What is addressed is, at the very least, what is offensive to man. At the very most, purity rituals of early Judaism.

 

[Dr. Strange]

Romans 1:26
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.


Romans is a little more involved. Keep in mind that, the NT does not define the OT. What defines the NT is the OT and so far, I've established that Leviticus does not find male-male sex an abomination against the LORD. In Romans, Paul sticks to the lesson taught in Leviticus but uses it to address the split of the Jewish and Pagan Christian sects of the Early Church. Paul uses this issue of, what we call homosexuality, to bring the two sects together. Chastising both using what they both understood. Paul uses three words to describe homogenital acts; para physin (unnatural), atimia (degrading) and, aschemosyne (shameless). None of which do not convey what is unethical. To make a long discussion short, Paul was talking about idolatry in the Early Church. There is so much more that goes along with this discussion.

1 Corinthians 6:9,10. Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters,adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,

Briefly, “sexually immoral” refers to prostitution, “men who submit to homosexual acts” is a gross representation of the Greek text and, “men who practice homosexuality is too.

“9*Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes*nor sodomitesc” scripture


“* [6:9] The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Rom 1:26–27; 1 Tm 1:10.” scripture

pornoi

pornoi

G4205

n_ Nom Pl m

paramours

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co6.pdf

par·amour
Noun\ˈpa-rə-ˌmu̇r\

: a person with whom someone is having a romantic or sexual relationship and especially a secret or improper relationship Paramour - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

The word, “paramours” could be interpreted as a concubine or even a prostitute. The word closely resembles “adultery” in definition. But, prostitutes is more likely to be what 1 Corinthians is speaking about given the footnote from NAB1970.


As for the homosexuality issue. That is all wrong. Basically, two phrases refer to homosexuality; not a likely redundancy. I refer you back to NAB1970 footnote. Again, the doctrine of the Church follows sound exegesis stating that, pedophilia is homosexuality. Not even close.

 

[ChristineES]

I understand the concept, although disagree that it actually works that way. It never seems to be tolerating the sins of anyone but the gay people in practice. But regardless the person in this thread said "tolerate the homosexuals" and then claimed to also "love" them. Not "tolerate the sin."

It's only about sex. Being gay in itself would not be considered a sin by most Christians, what they consider a sin is the sexual act (that is what they tell me, most of them). Just as gluttony is a sin, yet being overweight is not or something similar.

 

[Drolefille]

It's only about sex. Being gay in itself would not be considered a sin by most Christians, what they consider a sin is the sexual act (that is what they tell me, most of them). Just as gluttony is a sin, yet being overweight is not or something similar.

Again, I'm aware of the concept. But the person I replied to, apparently doesn't agree. They tolerate homosexuals, and we're still up in the air about bisexuals.

 

[Storm]

It's only about sex. Being gay in itself would not be considered a sin by most Christians, what they consider a sin is the sexual act (that is what they tell me, most of them). Just as gluttony is a sin, yet being overweight is not or something similar.

Let's be honest, Christine, it's *not* just the sex. There's no way in hell these people would marry devout same sex couples who vowed celibacy. Do you disagree?

And let's also be honest that NO other "sinners" are expected to forego a single fundamental human need. You mentioned gluttons, but who would even dream of asking them to deny themselves food and drink altogether. After all, asking people to just starve would be foolish, cruel and destructive.

Homosexuals, however ARE required to deny themselves love, companionship, family, and any semblance of an authentic life. This despite the fact that it's every bit as foolish, cruel, and destructive. But somehow it's not tragic at all, so long as it's just the dirty queers.

Is that really the side you want to take? Even if the Bible did say it was a sin - which it doesn't, when read in historical context - do you truly believe that Christ would ask that of us? Would he ask *you* to ask it of us?

 

[ChristineES]

Let's be honest, Christine, it's *not* just the sex. There's no way in hell these people would marry devout same sex couples who vowed celibacy. Do you disagree?

And let's also be honest that NO other "sinners" are expected to forego a single fundamental human need. You mentioned gluttons, but who would even dream of asking them to deny themselves food and drink altogether. After all, asking people to just starve would be foolish, cruel and destructive.

Homosexuals, however ARE required to deny themselves love, companionship, family, and any semblance of an authentic life. This despite the fact that it's every bit as foolish, cruel, and destructive. But somehow it's not tragic at all, so long as it's just the dirty queers.

Is that really the side you want to take? Even if the Bible did say it was a sin - which it doesn't, when read in historical context - do you truly believe that Christ would ask that of us? Would he ask *you* to ask it of us?

I don't take sides nor did I say what I believe in personally. I was trying to explain what the mainstream Christians believe. I can't answer for other people, nor can I tell people what to do.