What is wrong with the Quran?

[lewisnotmiller]

If you recognize that there is no gods but God. Then I think you are a Muslim.

You think the Pope is a Muslim? He'll be surprised to hear that.

 

[Kemosloby]

To match other verse, the white grapes would need to be 'large of eye' with 'swelling breasts' though.

And there is also reference to males who will serve them "And will circulate among them boys for them, as if they (were) pearls well-protected." 52:24



Arabic possibly developed as a dialect of Aramaic, they are certainly related anyway.

The majority of the 'Abrahamic' content seems to have crossed into Arabic via the Syrio-Aramaic Christian tradition.

To see the Quran as a translation is probably going too far, especially as it refers to itself as an 'Arabic Quran'. That there are Syrio-Aramaic influences (linguistic and cultural) in the Quran however is pretty clear cut.

Even the word Quran itself derives from "Syriac qǝryānā, “reading of Scripture in Divine Service”, etymon of Arabic qur’ān"

Yeah it seems sort of psuedo-judeo christian except where the Apostles warned about people who were trying to unteach everything they taught, that became the Quran.

 

[sovietchild]

You think the Pope is a Muslim? He'll be surprised to hear that.

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

 

[YmirGF]

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

Which is a particularly revolting idea. How arrogant does a religion have to be to promote such nonsense?

 

[Jumi]

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

If that were true people around the world would have same customs without been taught them.

 

[sovietchild]

Which is a particularly revolting idea. How arrogant does a religion have to be to promote such nonsense?

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim).

I think Fitra means that everyone was born believing in one God.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

Which is fine & fluffy until science shows us that baby's brains aren't developed enough to even see properly when they're born, much less to do something as important as retaining memories or form opinions on complex concepts. Oh, and they have no sense of object permanence for the first few months at least. So they wouldn't be aware of a god to believe in, much less actually believe in it.

 

[Augustus]

Yeah it seems sort of psuedo-judeo christian except where the Apostles warned about people who were trying to unteach everything they taught, that became the Quran.

It's not pseudo-Judeo-Christian, it grew out of the Syriac Christian tradition and took most of a century to solidify its identity as a distinct religion. Much of the Quran is a commentary on various 7th C religious issues and it seems to have been an ecumenical but austere eschatological monotheistic movement from within the tradition.

Early followers were called 'emigrants' and 'believers', and included Jews and Christians. 'Muslim' doesn't appear on any inscriptions for about 100 years.

 

[Kemosloby]

It's not pseudo-Judeo-Christian, it grew out of the Syriac Christian tradition and took most of a century to solidify its identity as a distinct religion. Much of the Quran is a commentary on various 7th C religious issues and it seems to have been an ecumenical but austere eschatological monotheistic movement from within the tradition.

Early followers were called 'emigrants' and 'believers', and included Jews and Christians. 'Muslim' doesn't appear on any inscriptions for about 100 years.

That makes sense because it was Jews who didn't believe in Jesus who were the ones the Apostles warned about. So some of the Christians were led astray by those Jews and it eventually became Islam.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

Which is hilarious, given that Islam had to spread from a single point of origin, and was never 'founded' in any secondary locations around the world.

 

[YmirGF]

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim).

I think Fitra means that everyone was born believing in one God.

And Muhammad is wrong on this point. I have very sharp memories from my very early childhood. The earliest is from approximately 6-8 WEEKS old and I had no ability to quantify anything. I did not believe in a god. I didn't believe in anything. At no other point in my very early childhood did I assume the existence of god. Heck, it took me long enough to wrap my head around the idea of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy - let alone any idea of god or gods. If we are being honest, I didn't even think about god until I was 4 or 5... and again, I have very clear memories from this period. Unusually clear. So, again, Muhammad is flat out wrong according to my experience.

 

[YmirGF]

Which is hilarious, given that Islam had to spread from a single point of origin, and was never 'founded' in any secondary locations around the world.

Yeah, you would tend to expect that if the assertion was actually true. Muslims would have spread out and eventually discovered another society almost the same as their own... That they did not encounter anything remotely like Islam is very telling given that it is supposed to be a universal recognition of monotheism.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yeah, you would tend to expect that if the assertion was actually true. Muslims would have spread out and eventually discovered another society almost the same as their own... That they did not encounter anything remotely like Islam is very telling given that it is supposed to be a universal recognition of monotheism.

Kinda a paucity of Abrahamaic-style monotheism even in a very general sense.
I've read arguments that the Native Americans had knowledge of a monotheistic God, and found it an amazing case of trying to squeeze facts into a pre-existing theory. I mean, even to say 'Native American religion is...' and give an answer on it is amazingly ignorant, unless the word used is 'diverse'.

 

[Kapalika]

Do you actually not understand what "What is wrong with" means since you put it in every title I've ever seen by you or is this a self-parody of all your "what is wrong with x" threads where you actually asked what is wrong with it? Or are you trying to challenge people to say what they think is wrong with the Koran so you can debate? I seriously want to know at this point.

All infidels must die ... Muslim girls are simply incubators and the 72 virgin thing tells me all I need to know about the Koran.

And the least diplomatic post award goes to...

In Islam, we believe everyone was born as Muslim.

What? Is this really a thing or just a sovietchild thing? I mean, I've never heard of this. Can any other Muslims on this board confirm or deny how widespread this belief is?

 

[Augustus]

What? Is this really a thing or just a sovietchild thing? I mean, I've never heard of this. Can any other Muslims on this board confirm or deny how widespread this belief is?

It's a standard belief.

Within a religious hermaneutic it makes sense as heaven/hell religions have an issue about what happens to infants who die before they are able to formally enter a faith (for the controversy this question can cause see the persecution of the Anabaptist movement in medieval Europe).

If the default is being part of the faith then the answer to the question is clear.

 

[Kemosloby]

It's a standard belief.

Within a religious hermaneutic it makes sense as heaven/hell religions have an issue about what happens to infants who die before they are able to formally enter a faith (for the controversy this question can cause see the persecution of the Anabaptist movement in medieval Europe).

If the default is being part of the faith then the answer to the question is clear.

Infants are subject to their parents/guardians, If the parents or a parent within a family is Christian the whole family is "Christian" and saved by Christ on the judgement day, Which is the main benefit to being Christian. But not all infants on the whole earth are saved merely by being infants.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I would love to hear a response to the Wood Querishi video on A Brief History of the Koran

 

[Tabu]

All infidels must die ... Muslim girls are simply incubators and the 72 virgin thing tells me all I need to know about the Koran.

There is no mention of any of this in quran , can you back up each statement with a verse from Quran , hopefully you read it now.

 

[Augustus]

I would love to hear a response to the Wood Querishi video on A Brief History of the Koran

What specific points are raised?

Sorry, I couldn't watch the video because the 2 people in it were insufferable buffoons.

 

[Tabu]

I have read the whole thing maybe once years ago, i have tried many times since to have another crack at it but then opening the Koran the forth verse of Fatiha, where it says "Master of the day of judgement",

Even I wonder why it is translated so , some Arabic experts here could give an explanation.
The word " Deen" is translated as religion in many other places in Quran , so why translate it as judgement here .