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Featured What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by sovietchild, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    You are the liar. The Arabs often initially promised tolerance and generosity to keep the subjects happy in the initial stages of their conquest (just like the British and all empires have done) but as soon as they have established a secure foothold, all that toleration vanished. Coptics of Egypt suffered same as the Zoroastrians of Iran and Hindus of India.

    Just some excerpts
    The Coptic Orthodox Church under Islam | The British Orthodox Church

    Extensive History. Since the Copts still survive,let's hear it from them
    History of the Coptic Orthodox People and the Church of Egypt
     
    #481 sayak83, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  2. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Woah! Don't go attacking the British!

    It is very obvious the British never harmed anybody and were always tolerant. Look at all those non-British people living in India and West Africa! Checkmate.
     
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  3. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Which means that oppression occurred to them in the US today and not
    in the Latin America.
     
  4. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    The conflict happening today in Egypt and in other places isn't the case
    before a hundred years ago, Islam is 1500 years old.
     
  5. Onyx

    Onyx Active Member
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    Perhaps a person that smashes idols is superstitious?
     
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  6. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Your turn, you bad :D
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    My entire post was talking about oppression of the Coptics in history under Islamic Caliphates (800 CE - 1600 CE) .
    You do not read. is that it?
     
  8. Kirran

    Kirran
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    But that's wrong, there was massive oppression of Amerindians in Latin America. The casta system, in particular. My family's from Latin America.

    Good thing I'm not a blind hypocrite, huh? I am more than willing to say that the British Empire committed many atrocities.
     
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  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Very true. Brazil, at least, historically has no moral high ground to speak of regarding treatment of Amerindians.
     
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  10. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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  11. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    And how you explain that US has the fewest if not being Genocide.

    And which religion to blame for their ugly deeds?
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Wait a minute. Are you operating under the belief that there is less of a native american population in the USA than Brazil does? That they massacred their own natives more throughly than we did?

    I am not sure what metrics would be proper to compare the two situations, but I have a hard time believing that.



    Why would it have to be a religion? The most blame-worthy belief that guides those deeds would probably be White Man's Burden, if we have to choose one. But as in so much else, the reality is very much nuanced.
     
  13. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Yeah, genocide.

    A complex set of cultural, religious, economic and circumstantial factors.

    As in any situation.
     
  14. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    The US government also signed multiple documents assuring the "Indians" that they will be respected and their rights will be protected. And then they violated them willy-nilly whenever it suited them. A document (even if not a forgery) is not worth the paper it is written on when the rulers feel free to violate it whenever they feel like it.

    You asked if the Muslim rulers of the conquered territories oppressed religious minorities, destroyed and desecrated their places of worship and used all sorts of heavy handed tactics to force them to convert. I have provided plenty of such evidence now that this happened by official sanction of the Caliphs and Governors throughout the centuries quite regularly on

    1) Hindus and Sikhs of India
    2) Zoroastrians of Persia
    3) Coptics of Egypt

    I do not care if this somehow violates some principles laid down by Mohammed, as I do not care whether the Crusades or the Spanish Conquistadors, devout and zealous Christians all, did atrocities that somehow violates the words of Jesus. Muslim conquerors, fired with religious zeal, severely oppressed followers of other religions in the territories they conquered until they were either nearly decimated (Zoroastrians, Coptics) or were forced to convert in large numbers to escape the oppression. This is a fact of history and is continuing right to the present. Your pious fiction that the people of these regions lived blissfully under a tolerant Muslim order and converted with gay abandon to Islamic after realizing its truth is a lie. Your fiction that those who wanted to keep their religions were able to do this with freedom and honor is an even greater lie. What you make of these facts of history is upto you.
     
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  15. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    Its not complex. Imposition of civilizational and racial superiority theory spearheaded by missionary Christians in collusion with the State.
    Canadian Indian residential school system - Wikipedia
     
  16. Kirran

    Kirran
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    I am referring to the set of circumstances leading humans to behave in this manner. I am well aware of the great many atrocities committed by the British state and its organs, and how their impacts continue to cause great suffering to this day as well.
     
  17. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    True. Neither am I saying that somehow the British or the Europeans were especially worse and other in their place would do better. But the macroscopic factors and the psychological factors that lead from simple lack of empathy all the way upto the gas chamber are not too complex to untangle and hence attempt to understand and redress. I laud the Canadian government for doing this through its current efforts. I continue to hope (in vain) that India-Bagladesh-Pakistan will set up one such truth and reconciliation effort to address the wounds of those killed and displaced during the atrocities of the Partition. The way forward is not denial, and that is the typical attitude of most individuals, nations and communities in the world. :(

    For a man dwelling on the objects of the senses,
    An attachment to them is born;
    From attachment, desire is born;
    From desire anger is born (from the frustration of the desires);
    From anger rises delusion;
    From delusion loss of memory;
    From loss of memory, destruction of discrimination;
    From destruction of discrimination one is lost.
    - Gita ( 2:62)

    See? Simple! :)
     
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  18. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Are you more knowledgeable than Gandhi whom believed that Islam can never be
    succeeded if by the sword.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Gandhi broke bread with Badshah Khan, blessed be his memory.

    He may easily have extrapolated a bit too much from Khan into his conceptions of Islaam and of Muhammad.
     
  20. Kirran

    Kirran
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    'Those days' Gandhiji talks about seem to be those in which Muhammad was alive. Not the 1400 years since.
     
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