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what is UU?

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
That was pretty interesting! I found the following quote to be especially true:

Americans are much less loyal to the denominations than they were at the end of’ World War Il. Name brand loyalty has gone way down.
I really dislike denominationalism. I think it is wrong headed and counter productive! My faith belongs to me and does not come from any credo, synod or prayer book. As opposed to being non-denominational, I am most emphatically "anti-denominational". :D
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
NetDoc said:
That was pretty interesting! I found the following quote to be especially true:


I really dislike denominationalism. I think it is wrong headed and counter productive! My faith belongs to me and does not come from any credo, synod or prayer book. As opposed to being non-denominational, I am most emphatically "anti-denominational". :D
There are good and bad points about denominationalism. At its worst, denominationalism results in people squabbling over technicalities of dogma instead of focusing on the substance of their religions - what is most important. In Christianity, Jesus' message of love is what is important, not matters of ecclesiastical hierrarchy or peripheral dogma, etc.

Conversely, at its best, denominationalism results in
the awareness that one has a choice. With only one church, whether it was the catholic (ie - universal) church or it's the fact that everybody in your community is Baptist, not having alternatives means that you have to accept what the majority says or else be socially ostracized. Whereas with multiple choices, people by necessity develop more tolerance for different beliefs.

Without the extreme denominationalism that has existed in the U.S. from the beginning, American UU would not exist.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
what is most important. In Christianity, Jesus' message of love is what is important, not matters of ecclesiastical hierrarchy or peripheral dogma, etc.



I think you have it right here... we have exchanged LOVE for a bunch of rules and regulations created by man. T'ain't right!
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
NetDoc said:
I think you have it right here... we have exchanged LOVE for a bunch of rules and regulations created by man. T'ain't right!
Well, we're getting sidetracked a bit from the thread since it was about what UU is and not what Christianity is, but it was my thread so I'm allowed to, aren't I?....?? Plus, I would be uncomfortable starting this thread within Christianity seeing as how I don't identify myself as Christian.

I think the central issue that factionalizes Christianity is the question of how universal that LOVE is. Does God only love some of us? Does God love all of us? Christians will argue over whether Jesus was/is God - or at least UU Christians will. I imagine there isn't much dissent outside of liberal Christianity about Christ's divinity - but I still see the underlying issue as the extent of that love. Because if a Christian believes that God loves everybody, then even if he/she believes that Jesus is God and savior, he/she doesn't believe that one needs to believe in order to be saved. Whereas if a Christian believes that God's love is conditional, then salvation becomes conditioned upon holding the right beliefs. That's how I see it anyway. (If you disagree significantly, we can take it to another thread in the Christianity forum.)

Getting back to Scovel and his describing UU as "institutionalized transcendentalism," what he's basically saying is that the source of spiritual authority within UU has become so personalized that there is no room any outside religious authority. And, according to him, Christianity is necessarily based (at least partially) on external authority - revealed truth as recorded in scripture. Therefore, there is no room for
real Christianity within UU. It's certainly an interesting argument and calls into question the validity of our religious pluralism.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I am not so sure that I agree with that premise. Unitarians are about as individual as they come, but I have yet to meet the first one that argued "white is black". For the largest majority of them, their search is for TRUTH, not just more questions. Their search for truth might take them through HUNDREDS of questions, but they are the means to the end, and not the end in and of itself.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
NetDoc said:
I am not so sure that I agree with that premise. Unitarians are about as individual as they come, but I have yet to meet the first one that argued "white is black". For the largest majority of them, their search is for TRUTH, not just more questions. Their search for truth might take them through HUNDREDS of questions, but they are the means to the end, and not the end in and of itself.
Well there are two issues here, whether or not UUs really want to find answers to the questions and whether or not UUs can accept that the answers have been revealed within scripture. My understanding is that Scovel is arguing that they... I mean we... can't accept the latter because we view the ultimate spiritual authority as being within us. I'm not saying that I believe he's right. Still trying to figure it out. I hope that he's wrong.

As for whether or not UUs believe that there really are answers/TRUTH to be found, I think that depends upon the individual UU. In typical UU fashion, we run the gamut! But you're comment has reminded me of another UU joke, which I will post on the UU joke thread... so look for it please! I think you'll get a kick out of it.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Well,

It's not unusual for entities within a movement or denomination to try to re-define that organisation. I am sure that any time I open my mouth during a bible study or discussion group that there are some who simply "roll their eyes" knowing that I will be making a point about evangelism or loving your neighbor.

The search and discovery of Truth (answers) as well as the asking is an incredibly personal issue for most of us. Like most UUs, I am ALWAYS challenging my values, and even my core values. Though my search has narrowed to mailnly the Bible for truth, I still retain that part of my UU heritage.

I guess what I am trying to say is: "Searching and Tolerance" has always defined the UU movement to me (I am not sure that I would trivialize them as ONLY a denomination). It is that very definition that limit's their numbers! :D
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Quote [It's not unusual for entities within a movement or denomination to try to re-define that organisation]

good example Henry viii in U.K; what a lad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
NetDoc, I think that there is something very right with this forum when a member of a religion (in this case UU) is pointing out potential flaws within their own tradition and the "other side" is pointing out its strengths. It's sooo much nicer than the other way around! Thanks for the discourse, lilith
 
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