1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What is the Word (John1:1)?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by calm, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,190
    Ratings:
    +297
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    Actually it is.

    What Jesus said is the truth and did not lie.
    It proves that Jesus is not God otherwise he would have said:

    "I am God, I am God, Why have I forsaken myself?!"
    That would be totally weird and outright hilarious

    Matthew 27:46 New International Version (NIV)

    About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
     
  2. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    I find your arguments realy sad.
    #1. You guys claim that Paul concocted the Trinity and the Books in the NT written by him is false.
    #2. I then showed you what Jesus said, not Paul, and Jesus said he raised himself from the dead.
    #3. You then use Paul's Romans in an attempt to disprove what Jesus said.
    Do you see how your deception you wove got you all tangled up?

    Now, I beleive with all mt heart that jesus is Lord and God raised him up from the Dead, because Jesus and the Fater are one.
    So, I will now play Devild advocate and ask you this:

    Who will we believe on who rose Jesus from death?
    A. Jesus
    B. Paul
     
  3. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    And the most hilarious thing you dont even see is what Jesus said!
    A little secret.
    In the ancient times, the OT were not numbered, but each chapter or Psalm were known by its first verse.
    Now lets see what Jesus actually said!
    Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
    ......
    Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
    Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
    Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
    ...
    Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
    Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
    Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
    Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
    Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
    Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
    Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

    What Jesus did was to recite psalm 22 to let everyone know that this prophecy was also one fullfilled.

    And you missed out on it!
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
    Why didn't you just say you aren't a real christian? I dont claim that, epistles are part of the . Bible. Perhaps you should read them.
     
  5. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
    Really! What a claim!

    Is your jive some occult?
     
  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
    Epistles are go to text in nt
     
  7. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
    Aha is some cultic stuff.

    You need to be asking me questions, not telling me things
     
    #147 Desert Snake, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  8. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
    Are you against the epistles, or not.?
     
    #148 Desert Snake, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,620
    Ratings:
    +1,681
  10. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,190
    Ratings:
    +297
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    Sorry, Paul, apostle of Jesus Christ did not invent the Trinity.
    A confused pathetic double dead false preacher invented and coined the Trinity

    [​IMG]

    Born
    Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus

    155 AD
    Carthage, Tunisia
    Died 240 AD
    Carthage, Tunisia
    Notable work
    Apologeticus
    Theological work
    Era
    Patristic age
    Tradition or movement Soteriology
    Traducianism
    Notable ideas Trinity, Hypostasis, Ousia, Sacrament, Consubstantiality, Persona, Purgatory[1]

    Tertullian (/tərˈtʌliən/; full name Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus; c. 155 – c. 240 AD)[2] was a prolific early Christian author from Carthage in the Roman province of Africa.[3] Of Berber origin,[4][5][6][7][8] he was the first Christian author to produce an extensive corpus of Latin Christian literature. He also was an early Christian apologist and a polemicist against heresy, including contemporary Christian Gnosticism.[9] Tertullian has been called "the father of Latin Christianity"[10][11] and "the founder of Western theology."[12]

    Though conservative in his worldview, Tertullian originated new theological concepts and advanced the development of early Church doctrine. He is perhaps most famous for being the first writer in Latin known to use the term trinity (Latin: trinitas).

    SOURCE: Tertullian - Wikipedia

    The idjit was born after the last apostle [John] died.

    All encyclopedias records that the doctrine of the Trinity is a developed doctrine.

    The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus "threefold")[1] holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons[2] or hypostases[3]—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons". The three Persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[4] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.[5] Sometimes differing views are referred to as nontrinitarian. Trinitarianism contrasts with positions such as Binitarianism (one deity in two persons, or two deities) and Monarchianism (no plurality of persons within God), of which Modalistic Monarchianism (one deity revealed in three modes) and Unitarianism (one deity in one person) are subsets.

    While the developed doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament, the New Testament possesses a "triadic" understanding of God[6] and contains a number of Trinitarian formulas.[7] The doctrine of the Trinity was first formulated among the early Christians and fathers of the Church as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions.[8]

    SOURCE: Trinity - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]
     
  11. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    Oh, But I do.
    My point is that anti Trinitarians like to use Pauls' writings to attack the Trinity concept, but on the other hand claim that paul concocted the Trinity.
    Its like saying, believe my sister Aymy, she lies just like me.
    From my point of view, If Jesus claimed to be God, for which he was executed, all other scripture should be regarded as supportive of His divinity.
     
  12. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    Thank you then.
    Therefore will you return to my question.
    Do you believe jesus when he said He will rose himself from the Dead?
    Or do you deny what he says and rather twist the writings from Paul who said Jesus was divine?
     
  13. Marcion

    Marcion Tantra-Yoga Universalist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Ratings:
    +541
    Religion:
    Manava (human) Dharma, no religion, but Neo-Humanism
    At the very beginning of the universe was the sound/word OHMN ("Amen").
     
  14. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    where is this written?
     
  15. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,190
    Ratings:
    +297
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    What did the Lord Jesus say on things he speaks?
    I will go to the letters of Paul - and where did I twist Paul's writings?
    His writings do not need any interpretation.

    Romans 10:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    If you openly say, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from death, you will be saved.

    Romans 10:9 Common English Bible (CEB)
    Because if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    So where did I twist it?
    It is very clear - and your very bible shows this
    If you do not believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will not be saved.
    That isn't a twist - that is the message of Romans 10:9
    I believe Jesus is Lord and I believe God raised Lord Jesus from the dead, I know I will be saved


    John 14:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

    Here, the Lord Jesus said that the words he says are words authorized by the Father.
    Hence the Lord Jesus spoke the words of the Father.

    [​IMG]

    These verse does not prove the trinity but rather the statement of Jesus that his words are God's approved words
    If it did - where the heck is the Holy Spirit here?


    And one of his words were:

    Luke 24:46 New International Version (NIV)
    He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,

    Matthew 26:32 New International Version (NIV)
    But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”

    Matthew 27:63 New International Version (NIV)
    “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’

    Mark 9:31 New International Version (NIV)
    because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.”

    So are these correct?
    Yes they are the words of the Lord Jesus and he indeed rose from the dead on the third day as he said he would.
    Did Jesus die on the cross? Yes he did.
    Was Jesus really dead or playing dead or just in a coma? He was dead for three days.
    So did Jesus raised himself up from the dead? Because if he did then he wasn't dead but played dead.

    This is what Jesus said about himself and his capabilities:

    John 5:19 New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
     
  16. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    Not what I asked,
    I ask, if Jesus said, I will raise myself from the dead, what does this mean?
    if Jesus is God, who raised him from the dead?
    God, and God.
     
  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,190
    Ratings:
    +297
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    It is so strange that I find people who wouldn't use the Bible
    to look and accept the truth for themselves

    They rather like to explain things about God based on their own understanding
    and in doing so has made the Lord Jesus Christ a liar, based on their own words

    When Jesus died on the cross
    Was he really, really dead?
    You ask yourself that question.
    Or was he playing dead?
    Like a trick you could teach your dog?

    [​IMG]

    If your answer is Jesus was really dead
    and he was dead for 3 days, then who resurrected him?

    To you - it was himself - then he was playing dead
    and you just called Jesus a liar
    do you think you would be saved on the last day?
    I don't think so

    Because you simply do not believe

    Romans 10:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)


    If you openly say, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from death, you will be saved.
     
  18. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    The Body of Jesus died, and the Word of God went to gehenna and preached to the spirits who died a long time ago.
    The Word of god rose from the dead, used the same body he had when he was crucified, and it changed into the immortal light covered body we will get.
    This Word then ascended to heaven where the Word is with the Father and His Spirit again.
     
  19. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,190
    Ratings:
    +297
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    And where did you read about that?
    [​IMG]
     
  20. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +239
    Religion:
    Protestant
    1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    and then read,
    Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    and then one of many OT prophecies of the One who will set the captives free.
    Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
    Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
    Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
    Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
    Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
     
Loading...