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What is the US interest in Ukraine?

lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Stevicus said:
Our involvement in the useless wars in the ME has to do with our devotion to Europe. America doesn't need oil from the Middle East, as America is a major producer and there are also significant sources of oil elsewhere in the world. But Europe does need the oil, and that's why we're involved.

The key position to remember when looking at the US government is that, (1) they never initiate any hostilities on their own and (2) every military action we've taken has been totally selfless on our part, where it's all about saving the world with no thought of reward or benefit for us.

George Bush believed that 9/11 happened because "they hate us for our freedom." That perfectly illustrates the utterly clueless mindsets of America's leadership and policymakers. This is why, whenever a politician or government official makes a statement about an event or the state of the world, it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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"George Bush believed that 9/11 happened because "they hate us for our freedom." That perfectly illustrates the utterly clueless mindsets of America's leadership and policymakers. This is why, whenever a politician or government official makes a statement about an event or the state of the world, it should be taken with a grain of salt."


In this case, not only US politicians, but their little lacky Nato member officials as well as Ukrainian and Russian officials.
 
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Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Father Heathen said:
My position is based upon the Ukranian people themselves. Not their government, not our government. Even if the support has some ulterior motives behind it, if it helps stop the rape, torture, abduction, trafficking, murder, etc. of children, then I'm for it.
One would have to be a ghoulish sociopath to shrug their shoulders at such crimes.
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But that's my point entirely - we ARE shrugging our shoulders at such crimes in some countries (Ethiopia for example, Rwanda for example). People TODAY are being murdered with knives and machetes in Ethiopia but oh well, I guess.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Kathryn said:
But that's my point entirely - we ARE shrugging our shoulders at such crimes in some countries (Ethiopia for example, Rwanda for example). People TODAY are being murdered with knives and machetes in Ethiopia but oh well, I guess.
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Yeah, the difference in international legal terms is what?
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Kathryn said:
But that's my point entirely - we ARE shrugging our shoulders at such crimes in some countries (Ethiopia for example, Rwanda for example). People TODAY are being murdered with knives and machetes in Ethiopia but oh well, I guess.
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I don't recall saying "Oh well, I guess", but okay. If there were any ongoing effort to support them, I would support it as well.

But to suggest that I should be cool and comfortable with children being tortured, raped, murdered, abducted, trafficked, etc. just because other victims in the world aren't receiving support is some sick, ****ed up logic.
 
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lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Father Heathen said:
I don't recall saying "Oh well, I guess", but okay. If there were any ongoing effort to support them, I would support it as well.

But to suggest that I should be cool and comfortable with children being tortured, raped, murdered, abducted, trafficked, etc. just because other victims in the world aren't receiving support is some sick, ****ed up logic.
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We don't hear much about the atrocities taking place in Yemen for the last 7 years, the millions of people starving, the bombing, because the mainstream media for the most part ignores them, they get no where near the coverage and outrage that a white Christian nation gets.

That's why you never mention anything about the children in Yemen.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
lukethethird said:
We don't hear much about the atrocities taking place in Yemen for the last 7 years, the millions of people starving, the bombing, because the mainstream media for the most part ignores them, they get no where near the coverage and outrage that a white Christian nation gets.
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And the nonmain-stream media does? Which?

BTW, I do fully agree with you that there's only scant coverage at best with the American media especially, which is why I also get some of my news from more international sources daily.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
lukethethird said:
We don't hear much about the atrocities taking place in Yemen for the last 7 years, the millions of people starving, the bombing, because the mainstream media for the most part ignores them, they get no where near the coverage and outrage that a white Christian nation gets.

That's why you never mention anything about the children in Yemen.
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I oppose crimes against children regardless of where they occur, regardless of how biased the media is or how corrupt governments are.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
the mainstream media and academia suppresses what they don't want us to know:

‘Rigorous’ Maidan massacre exposé suppressed by top academic journal​


Katchanovski told The Grayzone. “Many scholars are afraid to conduct evidence-based research that runs contrary to established Western narratives on Maidan, the Russia-Ukraine war, and other issues related to the conflicts in Ukraine Kiev following the 2014 coup.”
'Rigorous' Maidan massacre exposé suppressed by top academic journal - The Grayzone
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
lukethethird said:
the mainstream media and academia suppresses what they don't want us to know:

‘Rigorous’ Maidan massacre exposé suppressed by top academic journal​


Katchanovski told The Grayzone. “Many scholars are afraid to conduct evidence-based research that runs contrary to established Western narratives on Maidan, the Russia-Ukraine war, and other issues related to the conflicts in Ukraine Kiev following the 2014 coup.”
'Rigorous' Maidan massacre exposé suppressed by top academic journal - The Grayzone
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So you want to debate this?
Okay, but here it is the standard. If the West could have done something differently we note that. If Ukraine or a sub-division could have done something differently, we note that. If Russia could have done something differently, we note that.

Note this. I have been such debates before, once with a Russian. The end goal was the everybody else had done something wrong but not Russia as according to him.

So here it is. If that is your end position. We the West could have done something differently, so Ukraine, but not Russia, then don't bother.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
lukethethird said:
the mainstream media and academia suppresses what they don't want us to know:
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That's quite a blanket conspiracy theory.

What I do 6 days a week is to get my news from all different sources, including even those I don't trust, such as Fox. The first thing I do when I get on-line is to turn to Yahoo News since they use sources from all over the world.
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Father Heathen said:
I don't recall saying "Oh well, I guess", but okay. If there were any ongoing effort to support them, I would support it as well.

But to suggest that I should be cool and comfortable with children being tortured, raped, murdered, abducted, trafficked, etc. just because other victims in the world aren't receiving support is some sick, ****ed up logic.
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Which is why I never said or implied that you or anyone else should be cool and comfortable with children being tortured. My anger is toward media and politicians.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Kathryn said:
Which is why I never said or implied that you or anyone else should be cool and comfortable with children being tortured. My anger is toward media and politicians.
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Yeah, but anger is a doble edged sword. If it can't be used in practice to change something it can eat you.
 
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