• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is the US interest in Ukraine?

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I suppose you forgot to add the words "yet" or "as far as we know" to the end of your statement, so I'll let it go.
I think actual occurrences take precedence over hypothetical ones.
Also, I'm not sure what a "non-brutal" war crime would entail, so I'm guessing that you added this adjective to give a little more emotional weight to your statement.
Sure, but they very in levels of severity, and I don't imagine it gets much worse than raping and torturing children.

 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I suppose you forgot to add the words "yet" or "as far as we know" to the end of your statement, so I'll let it go.

Also, I'm not sure what a "non-brutal" war crime would entail, so I'm guessing that you added this adjective to give a little more emotional weight to your statement.

Well, to nitpick. For the Russian people to be subject to war crimes by the Russian government requires that there in effect is a civil war going on.
That is so, because not all crimes relevant as crimes against humanity and genocide are not one to one war crimes.
And no, none of those are not going on in Russia as of now against the Russian people.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
People of Donbass and Lugansk have been subjected to war crimes by western Ukraines, some of which extend back to 2014, since the civil war in Ukraine started.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
People of Donbass and Lugansk have been subjected to war crimes by western Ukraines, some of which extend back to 2014, since the civil war in Ukraine started.

No, not really as far as I can tell based on neutral reporting.
But here is a true Internet source and it is true, because you can read it. lukethethird is a traitor to his country and that is now a fact, because it is claimed.
That is the standard of how to do that. Just claim it and it is a fact.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
No, not really as far as I can tell based on neutral reporting.
But here is a true Internet source and it is true, because you can read it. lukethethird is a traitor to his country and that is now a fact, because it is claimed.
That is the standard of how to do that. Just claim it and it is a fact.
I see, war crimes are one sided.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
No, but not all wars involve war crimes and not all sides in a war do war crimes, just because it is claimed.
And further it is even more complicated than at least some civilians believe in regards to the actual laws of war.
I know, and we are on the side of good, fighting the forces of evil, a Christian crusade saving souls, blah blah blah, and all from our computer desks no less with our tax dollars at work. Too busy fighting crusades to consider diplomacy I guess.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member

What is the US interest in Ukraine?​


To live contently we need to have more than our own practical interests at heart. We want to be leaders in the support of freedom and democracy for all people.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I know, and we are on the side of good, fighting the forces of evil, a Christian crusade saving souls, blah blah blah, and all from our computer desks no less with our tax dollars at work. Too busy fighting crusades to consider diplomacy I guess.

Well, not to me. It is a bit more complex than that.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Some humans are more important.

No, they aren't. You could have said "some are more or less useful to specific causes," but the way you worded it is quite troubling at best. Rwandan lives are no less important than Ukrainian ones, and vice versa.

What you're saying here seems to imply that if genocide were carried out in my country tomorrow, our lives would be less important as long as the perpetrators didn't pose a threat to NATO. I'm not sure whether you see how concerning that sounds to someone from the same region as Rwanda.

Ukrainians stand against a threat posed to NATO.
Rwandans, worthy people though many are, lack
that function.

So it's all about geopolitics, after all? Going by what you said, it sounds like human rights, democracy, and the other mantras the US touts aren't exactly the main motive for aiding people in other countries against war crimes and mass murder.
 
Last edited:

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
No, they aren't. You could have said "some are more or less useful to specific causes," but the way you worded it is quite troubling at best. Rwandan lives are no less important than Ukrainian ones, and vice versa.

What you're saying here seems to imply that if genocide were carried out in my country tomorrow, our lives would be less important as long as the perpetrators didn't pose a threat to NATO. I'm not sure whether you see how concerning that sounds to someone from the same region as Rwanda.



So it's all about geopolitics, after all? Going by what you said, it sounds like human rights, democracy, and the other mantras the US touts aren't exactly the main motive for aiding people in other countries against war crimes and mass murder.

Yes, it is to me, if I am honest as a Dane even for Danish politics. I wish it was different, but it is not realistic only to go for human rights and all that. It is a part of it, yes, But not always the main part and if it is, it can blind you for the realities on the ground.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, it is to me, if I am honest as a Dane even for Danish politics. I wish it was different, but it is not realistic only to go for human rights and all that. It is a part of it, yes, But not always the main part and if it is, it can blind you for the realities on the ground.

I completely agree. I understand prioritizing involvement in conflicts based on geopolitics, since no country could realistically send aid everywhere there are human rights violations. However, saying that this means some lives are "less important" than others is extremely problematic.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
It's also disturbing because it makes me suspect that if it happened to your country or mine and our families and friends were put at risk, there would be people justifying and excusing that.
What's also disturbing is that those who claim to advocate for peace are placing onus upon the victim rather than upon the aggressor, using the same logic as rape apologists.
 

Rachel Rugelach

Shalom, y'all.
Staff member
Premium Member
Some humans are more important.
Ukrainians stand against a threat posed to NATO.
Rwandans, worthy people though many are, lack
that function.
I am giving you a "like" for what I (hopefully correctly) see as deliberate irony in your statement.

Of course NATO is not the determining factor for the value of a human life.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
I am giving you a "like" for what I (hopefully correctly) see as deliberate irony in your statement.

Of course NATO is not the determining factor for the value of a human life.
Some people feel safe and protected by this Nato war alliance or war pact, you know how it is with xenophobia and the fears that go along with that sort of thing.
 
Top