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What is the purpose of Life?
- Thread starter MatthewA
- Start date
nPeace
Veteran Member
I just posted a response in the thread frank created, explaining what's happening.
Ny post above answers your question. Do you understand why you don't see the answer. I explained im the other post.
Let me know if you get it.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If you're not quoting me, I most likely didn't read it. I'm not sure what Frank said. I just wanted to know if you depend on structure to tell you what to do (when it comes to spirituality and religion).
Everything else is irrelevant because we had no prior conversation to base it on.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
to learn all that you can before you die
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I replied that that post-the point and what's written-didn't relate to my question/point. It was probably a comment related to what Frank said or a counter argument with him or something.
My curiosity still stands, though.
Most people I know outside of abrahamic traditions tend to experience spirituality without the aid of an outside source such as scripture.
Do you "need" scripture or a structure to tell you want to do (as a cookbook to a cook) or can you experience it (say god) without the need of instructions?
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Why is that? Just because I accept that my parents created me doesn't mean they are automatically deserving of my worship. The same would hold true for any creator god.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Interesting quotes... too bad they don't answer the question that I asked.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Let me first make the answers to your questions clear, since evidently they aren't.
Post #52
Spoiling things is a way that many people chose to learn. It costs them, but they had the money to burn, so they don't complain.Unveiled Artist said:
When the computer fried, they just pulled their pockets and brought another.
Some parents hold their belly and bawl, and when the younger one steps in the same direction, they stamp their foot down and say, "No. I'm not going to lose another baby."
Some others say, "Oh well. What's done is done. Someone else will clean that mess."
In other words, imagine for a moment, if you can, a baby born blind, and deaf.
For the next 14 years of their life, they depended on their mom, to cook for them.
Then one day, they find themselves in a strange place - no mom... but something else. They gained their sight.
They are left to care for themselves.
Cooking comes automatic right? No.
Crawling is a learned action - to move where one wants to go, as the brain learns the momentum of the body..Unveiled Artist said:
Does that work for babies with serious brain defects?
New Robot Helps Babies with Cerebral Palsy Learn to Crawl
Does it work for all babies?
Not all little ones master crawling before they learn to walk. Some scoot, shuffle, wriggle or roll.
Do you think they walk on their own too, or do they need help and training?
According to Anne Rowan-Legg, a paediatrician at the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa, most babies do crawl, and they usually start between seven to 10 months old. By the time Theo finally learned to walk at 18 months (which is on the late side), I was still itching to check “crawling” off the list of milestones. He skipped it altogether.
What about using the toilet... Is that automatic, or do they need to learn - to be trained?
They could always just do like the animals, but babies who live like that aren't normally healthy.
Is this a, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" statement?Unveiled Artist said:
Post #54
The "flow of things"? What do you mean... do you mean living like Joe and Janise? Or living how I choose to?Unveiled Artist said:
I hate the "flow of things" this world suggests. I prefer the guidance of the creator.
The "flow of things" have sent men to the gallows, prisons, the battle field, having nightmares, losing it mentally, suicidal, death; spinal injuries, fractures... from competitive and or extreme sport; sexually transmitted, and other diseases - like "smokers lungs"; drug addiction, obsessive compulsions, debt, deadly rage, child abuse, rape, family breakdown, abusive speech, etc.
That's kind of difficulty to answer accurately, since it depends on what choices I make.Unveiled Artist said:
I'd probably be dead, because I made some bad choices before I found the "cookbook". I burned some food.
You see, I didn't know how to cook, and just ate junk people were selling.
That's unhealthy.
Some died a painful death because of that. Some were food poisoned too.
I don't think they would have ended up that way if they knew better.
Post #57
Everyone has a structure that tells them how to do things. Please inform us, if you think you don't.Unveiled Artist said:
So for me, I want a good one. It's either that, or follow the one this world has built up - the one that tells you do whatever you want ; follow your own heart ; make your own rules.
Then they are fooled into believing that they are not influenced by peers, or what surrounds them on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis.
See. I was able to avoid that trap, by grabbing on to this structure.
Did you learn to write poems without being influenced by poetry, or writings?Unveiled Artist said:
Did you learn to cook without seeing others cook?
Then you learned from someone.
It doesn't matter what you throw in your pot or pan. You did not get up one morning and know about cooking, or how to do it.
Yes, my answer was intentionally directed to you.Unveiled Artist said:
I know how to write, and think too, and form coherent responses.
No. I don't need you to tell me how to word it.
Why are you comparing?You said:
Should one dress like a Native Indian, because they dress that way?
Please explain this, because I am not seeing the connection. What are you trying to say... that everyone should do what most people you know do?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Let me first make the answers to your questions clear, since evidently they aren't.
Post #52
Spoiling things is a way that many people chose to learn. It costs them, but they had the money to burn, so they don't complain.
When the computer fried, they just pulled their pockets and brought another.
Some parents hold their belly and bawl, and when the younger one steps in the same direction, they stamp their foot down and say, "No. I'm not going to lose another baby."
Some others say, "Oh well. What's done is done. Someone else will clean that mess."
In other words, imagine for a moment, if you can, a baby born blind, and deaf.
For the next 14 years of their life, they depended on their mom, to cook for them.
Then one day, they find themselves in a strange place - no mom... but something else. They gained their sight.
They are left to care for themselves.
Cooking comes automatic right? No.
Crawling is a learned action - to move where one wants to go, as the brain learns the momentum of the body..
Does that work for babies with serious brain defects?
New Robot Helps Babies with Cerebral Palsy Learn to Crawl
Does it work for all babies?
Not all little ones master crawling before they learn to walk. Some scoot, shuffle, wriggle or roll.
Do you think they walk on their own too, or do they need help and training?
According to Anne Rowan-Legg, a paediatrician at the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa, most babies do crawl, and they usually start between seven to 10 months old. By the time Theo finally learned to walk at 18 months (which is on the late side), I was still itching to check “crawling” off the list of milestones. He skipped it altogether.
What about using the toilet... Is that automatic, or do they need to learn - to be trained?
They could always just do like the animals, but babies who live like that aren't normally healthy.
Is this a, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" statement?
Post #54
The "flow of things"? What do you mean... do you mean living like Joe and Janise? Or living how I choose to?
I hate the "flow of things" this world suggests. I prefer the guidance of the creator.
The "flow of things" have sent men to the gallows, prisons, the battle field, having nightmares, losing it mentally, suicidal, death; spinal injuries, fractures... from competitive and or extreme sport; sexually transmitted, and other diseases - like "smokers lungs"; drug addiction, obsessive compulsions, debt, deadly rage, child abuse, rape, family breakdown, abusive speech, etc.
That's kind of difficulty to answer accurately, since it depends on what choices I make.
I'd probably be dead, because I made some bad choices before I found the "cookbook". I burned some food.
You see, I didn't know how to cook, and just ate junk people were selling.
That's unhealthy.
Some died a painful death because of that. Some were food poisoned too.
I don't think they would have ended up that way if they knew better.
Post #57
Everyone has a structure that tells them how to do things. Please inform us, if you think you don't.
So for me, I want a good one. It's either that, or follow the one this world has built up - the one that tells you do whatever you want ; follow your own heart ; make your own rules.
Then they are fooled into believing that they are not influenced by peers, or what surrounds them on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis.
See. I was able to avoid that trap, by grabbing on to this structure.
Did you learn to write poems without being influenced by poetry, or writings?
Did you learn to cook without seeing others cook?
Then you learned from someone.
It doesn't matter what you throw in your pot or pan. You did not get up one morning and know about cooking, or how to do it.
Yes, my answer was intentionally directed to you.
I know how to write, and think too, and form coherent responses.
No. I don't need you to tell me how to word it.
Why are you comparing?
Should one dress like a Native Indian, because they dress that way?
Please explain this, because I am not seeing the connection. What are you trying to say... that everyone should do what most people you know do?
You can sum this up to say we don't first learn how to do an activity. We have to be first introduced to it by instruction in order to perform it.
I used an example of crawling. Does a mother have to go on all four knees to teach her child how to crawl?
I feel spirituality isn't something you read in a book or someone to teach you Who you are as a person. I feel if a person can't find that through his or her own healing and reflection, they are literally assuming what they read, see, or hear as something that defines them. So, a child would be indoctrinated in his or her mother's instruction (let's say), but the mother doesn't feel the child can be himself.
He always has to depend on the mother to define himself.
I don't believe it should be like that. Instructions of a cookbook doesn't mean much unless you cook. If you can't cook without referring to the book, the book basically didn't do anything. If you're an artist, you'd scrap the book and experiment on your own.
But I'm asking you specifically. Do you need structure to teach you spirituality?
I do get your point, but I'm asking you personally.
Shakeel
Well-Known Member
Your parents didn't create you. You were given to them.
There is no reason to assume?
So when we buy an unfamiliar gadget, there is no reason to assume we must use that gadget according to the instructions manual that comes with it.
We can use it anyway we want, and for whatever purpose we want.
View attachment 50318
In reality, that's what many have chosen to do.
View attachment 50319 View attachment 50320
Every day, 29 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver.1 This is one death every 50 minutes.1 The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $44 billion.
View attachment 50321
Problem Drinking and Promiscuity
Scientists have long believed that the environment has a role to play in triggering risky sexual behavior and problem drinking tendencies. But they now know that certain unique structural features of the brain can predict if an individual will abuse alcohol or show promiscuous behavior in reaction to stress.
Addictive tendencies triggered by stress
Early-life stresses, such as being raised in an abusive household, can alter brain chemistry and functionality and may trigger substance use and abuse tendencies.
Problems with Promiscuity
I don't want to fill up a page with all the problems man has created, and are unable to solve, because of seeking their own purpose, and doing things their way - Using their lives in various ways.
However, as you rightly said, it's up to us - our choice. We get to choose how to destroy our lives,
Or try to preserve it by our own means... regardless of how futile it proves to be.
Not meaning to sound negative, but facing reality or denying it, and hoping otherwise, is also a choice.
Just as we know - we don't need a degree in rocket science to know - we know that an instruction manual is provided by the manufacture, for the purpose of guiding the user, in the proper way for using his "not so simple" design, and taking care of it, common sense tells us that the designer of life would know the proper guidelines for his design to work to its fullest and best, and last longer - even forever, if it was designed to last that long.
So that's why some choose to consult the manual to hear from the manufacturer of life, because they know that using the "tools" the proper way, usually results in it lasting longer, and not being unnecessarily damaged.
If God is, and the evidence indicates that to be the case, then he has a purpose - one purpose, for his creation.
Of course that does not mean there is no variety, as is present in the variety of plants, animals, foods, etc.
It just means that one purpose is his overall purpose.
Thus there is good reason to assume that living our lives in harmony with, or in accord with his will, since he will fulfill his purpose - which the Bible says involves everlasting life.
Although for us, it's not an assumption.
You wouldn't use a piece of ice to hammer a nail also. That would be stupid given the properties of ice and the nail.
A hammer made out of ice, even if the 'purpose' is to hammer nails, would be useless.
The reason there are manuals for things is to explain how to use them according to the design of the engineer and for a specific purpose. That does not mean an object cannot be used for *other* goals in an effective and completely safe manner. You *will* have to know what you are doing, though. Not everything can be used for every goal.
The examples you gave show this type of bad reasoning: using alcohol while driving is *stupid*. It isn't that there is an intended purpose that isn't being achieved. it is that the conditions for safe use are being violated.
The same is true for pregnancies. We have simple technology that can prevent unwanted pregnancies, but people choose not to use it. That isn't 'going against purpose' as much as it is 'being stupid': not understanding the consequences of actions or ignoring those consequences.
And, of course, the difference between life and a car is that a car *has* a designer while it isn't at all clear that life does. In fact, if anything, it seems likely that there is no designer for life any more than there is for a mountain or an ocean. Also, either there is no manual or, at the very least, there is a debate about which manual is correct. So, once again, the 'purpose' is chosen by the individual, hopefully being aware of the consequences of their choices and using their intelligence while making them.
I disagree. They had sex and the new baby was the result. That *is* creation.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
That's a claim for which you would need to provide some verifiable evidence. All the evidence that I have indicates that I was indeed created by my parents act of procreation.
What do you see as the future of those who dismiss the existence of a Creator, in favor of living their own life, in their own way, according to their own rules?
The apostle Paul asked some interesting questions...
“For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?” (1 Corinthians 4:7)
Those who see their lives as an accident of nature, do not see it as a gift from the Creator. This can be understandable if life has given you nothing but grief.....but those who know in their heart that God exists, and who value life, even when it’s hard, understand that this is not the life God intended for us to live.....but only those who know their God and who love him, will allow him to explain what he is doing (or not doing in their view) and understand that there is a much bigger picture to consider.
But if you don’t know God, and have no trust in him, and have blocked your ears to his explanations provided in his instruction manual, then life will be a meaningless cycle with no purpose to our existence beyond this poor excuse for a life. How sad to have nothing better to look forward to.....
What do you see as the future of those who do place their trust in God, compared to those who don’t?
nPeace
Veteran Member
To you it's unclear. To others, far from.
nPeace
Veteran Member
If you are still asking that question, then I suggest you didn't read my post. I don't want to suggest you are blind, and I don't think you are, but I am beginning to think something is wrong... I don't want to say what I think it is though.
How do you know there is spirituality?
MatthewA
Active Member
It explains that those who are without washing their robes and having no faith, and rejecting God by their own free-will choice after have been given the choice on earth.
Jesus Christ talks about 2 resurrections ~ (John 5:29)
Due to their unbelief ~ Hebrews 3:19 (People who are given the knowledge about God and the truth about Jesus Christ (1 timothy 2:4) - willfully reject having receiving the forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 10:1-18) because of what Jesus Christ had done for all people. (1 Colossians 1:13-15)
Revelation 22 (Final Chapter) - Rev 22:14-15 ~ outside the (heavenly city gates) are those who are unbelievers, and did not desire or want anything to do with God what so ever, and that is by their own choice. They have been freely given the information to choose, so everyone in life makes the choice to either choose to look towards God and His Son, or wherever they desire when it comes to whatever else is in the world.
(Do not believe me but just see what you think about what is presented to you and you make a decision for yourself about what is true or what is not true.)
I do not know the context to this verse. (Am tired now, sleeping soon.)
Those who see their lives as an accident of nature, do not see it as a gift from the Creator. This can be understandable if life has given you nothing but grief.....but those who know in their heart that God exists, and who value life, even when it’s hard, understand that this is not the life God intended for us to live.....but only those who know their God and who love him, will allow him to explain what he is doing (or not doing in their view) and understand that there is a much bigger picture to consider.
But if you don’t know God, and have no trust in him, and have blocked your ears to his explanations provided in his instruction manual, then life will be a meaningless cycle with no purpose to our existence beyond this poor excuse for a life. How sad to have nothing better to look forward to.....
What do you see as the future of those who do place their trust in God, compared to those who don’t?
All I know there is a choice involved, and the answer in Christ Jesus, and He healed so many people who were all messed up and all needed help and Jesus Christ was willing to help them, and encourage his disciples, and train them up in spiritual needs by being made reborn again Christian by the spirit of Christ if you are a believer of the Gospel of Christ which speaks about the life, death, burial, and resurrection by God on the third day.
Some may not believe any of this or that is not valid or is not needed in life but you decide for yourself what you think, take care and thank you.
As it happens, I have something of an existentialist philosophical bent, so some of you may find this a little interesting. I certainly do. (Now, this talks not about the "purpose" of life, as the OP ask, but the "meaning." I thought they were close enough I could go ahead.)
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Do not assume something is true unless you ask. Assumptions are not facts.
I have replied (again) to your posts and this would have been a two post discussion if it was just answered with a yes/no or short answer.
I'm very simple. Spirituality, to me, is just a fancy term for your feelings, connection, and life changing experiences within the religion(s) or lifestyle you follow. Prayer is a form of that. Rituals. Is another.
Sheesh. I just wanted to ask a simple question. I can't even do that.