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Featured What is the Point of Judaism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Servant_of_the_One1, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Followers of Judaism says non-Jews wont burn in hell.
    So why should a jew follow Judaism when there is no Hell in Judaism?
    When a Jew and Polytheist will be sipping Tea in the same place?
     
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    On at least one level, I was born Italian-American. There is no eternal benefit to being Italian-American. An Irish-American will end up sipping tea in the same eternity. Yet I feel no pressing need to abandon my cultural birthright and either learn to love corned beef and cabbage (like a good Irish American) or to reject all culture except universal consumerism.

    Judaism tends not to seek converts. People are generally born into it, making it both part of both a Spiritual and Cultural identity. Why would people want to reject their culture?
     
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  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    (Since this thread was created in a general debate area, I feel entitled to pitch in)

    I think you answered your own question, Servant.

    Fear of burning in hell is not a good reason to practice a religion.

    A desire to isolate one's "tribe" (for lack of a better word) from others isn't generally speaking so much a good thing as an understadable one, either.



    That said, I have come to conclude that the reasons for one to practice Judaism are not always very clear-cut and homogeneous.

    There is of course the element of the received tradition that they attribute to God, and I suppose that aspect would be particularly easy to relate from a Muslim perspective.

    But it is also IMO ultimately among the less significant, and rightfully so. The Jewish People seem to me to value Judaism not so much due to Scripture and Revelation as out of respect for tradition, and then mostly because tradition has been shown to be useful in keeping their most precious good, that of mutual support and respect.

    I wish more, other people and other faiths (including mine) had something comparable. Perhaps someday. Alas, I do not expect to be alive if and when that happens.
     
  4. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    To keep their ethnic identity as a people/nation/tribe alive, along with the unique worldview that that ethnic group has. Same point as all ethic religions, really. It is their heritage.
     
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  5. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Where are you getting this from? Can you give me a verse or two? Must there be a point to Judaism? I'm a guy, must there be a point to that? As if to justify me being a guy. Sometimes in life, no explanation will suffice.
     
  6. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    those two statements don't follow each other. If there is no hell for non-Jews (not actually as simple as you make it sound) why do you conclude that there is no hell for Jews?
    No.
     
  7. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Is that the only reason you can think of for being religious... fear of hell?

    The afterlife is physical?
     
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  8. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    A threat of hell strikes me as an extraordinarily poor reason to practice a religion, and also a downright psychologically dysfunctional reason to practice a religion. If anything, we need to be asking ourselves what is the point of a religion that relies on psychosis to support itself.

    The answers are not particularly promising.
     
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  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I seriously doubt that Jews, Polytheists, and Muslims will be sipping anything after death but, should I be wrong, I would hope that we'll be doing so at the same table.
     
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  10. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    I just dont get why Judaism says believe in God is good. Ok that is good, i agree,
    But if u dont believe in God?
    What if u atheist or u believe in million gods?
    Does that mean u will be in the same place as Moshe pbuh?



    Btw as the Rabbi of RF tumah said there is opinion within judaism which believes in Hell. I think that makes more sense, not believing in God rejecting truth deserves hellfire.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Judaism isn't focused much on the afterlife, because that's not the point of the religion. Or any ethnic religion.
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The Rabbi of RF? :D
     
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  13. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Wt.....peep

    So where are Moses and the others pbut then?


    Are u for sure?
    There is no afterlife as in Paradise?
     
  14. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    I appointed him as Rabbi of RF.

    Hope he doesnt mind that lol
     
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  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Then we would have met a disagreement between we kaffirs and the theology of Judaism.

    If we then take as a premise that there is a God that will decide what kind of afterlife we will have earned, it must follow that God will have to decide how much he cares that we do not believe in his existence. In many cases that will involve situations where we know enough of the doctrine but nonetheless decide that we do not find it in tune with our own beliefs.

    People have been known to have a good measure of mutual respect and steem despite similar disagreements.

    It seems reasonable to me to expect that the God of Abraham would be no less wise, but apparently many (by no means all) Christians and Muslims disagree.

    So allow me to ask by my turn, Servant: do you expect God to much care on whether people believe in his existence and follow, choose or are raised into the same faith as other people?

    Would it not be more reasonable to expect God to care far more about behavior and moral integrity then about abstract theological beliefs?

    It is always a good thing when people learn to coexist in peace at the same place, so why not?
     
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  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    There's a variety of opinions on where Moses would be, if anywhere. Like I said, the afterlife isn't a main focus in Judaism. I think I've already made it clear why.
     
  17. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    hell and hellfire are two different things.
     
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  18. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    God set up rules, we break that rules we deserve punishment.

    Same like , i tell my son: o son, if u do good i will take u to disneyworld. U do evil then house arrest. Is that evil of me? Or the son is evil for disobeying?


    Is it evil of Countries to arrest Criminals? Why not let them free, kill around, use drugs....

    Hell and Paradise is like yingyang, there is balance in everything: death& life, hate & love, hell&paradise, man & woman, good & evil, God & satan.

    I find hell to be justice, because why should the disobedient disbeliever and obedient believer be in the same place?
     
  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Are you telling me that you see disbelief in the God of Abraham (even after learning of the Quran, of the Gospels and of the Torah) is in some sense breaking the rules set up by God?

    And that it is so to the point that we must be punished in hell as a direct result of the disbelief or theological disagreement?

    It seems to me that either I would know of that or else this God as you are claiming Him to be would be... well, he would not be very admirable even by purely human standards.

    And I think we can all agree that such a non-admirable being can not possibly be the God of Abraham as Judaism teaches Him to be.

    Nor would Christianity or Islam fairly propose that God is so petty, I would like to think.


    I am not sure people can really be evil as such.

    But leaving that aside for a moment, it seems to me that you are making the comparison with the assumption that non-monotheists must be either ill-educated about the God of Abraham or else simply wicked and immoral.

    As it happens, I am just in the right position to tell you that you are wrong in doing such an assumption. For whatever reason, people do in fact can and often do become moral beings even while finding out or even deciding actively that they have no ability or perhaps no interest to hold belief in Abraham's God.

    I suppose that can be troubling to many Muslims (and Christians) and I would welcome an effort to reach a better understanding with you about the matter. But that can only happen if you understand and accept that I can't be bullied into belief in Abraham's God.

    If you can accept that, I am then eager to initiate what can only be a very worthwhile exchange with you about how come an informed disbeliever can still be somewhat moral and have no reason to fear Hell.


    Disbelief is not disobedience, so I am not sure those people you are describing even exist in any way, shape or form.

    Atheism is not rebellion against God. If anything, God must feel the need for disbelievers, since he made it so easy and natural to be one of them.


    Beyond that... well, it stands to reason that the God of Love would have some ability to inspire moral healing even in those who do not believe in or understand Him, albeit often indirectly by way of the good work of the people He inspires more directly, don't you think?
     
  20. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I am not a Rabbi and I'm definitely not the Rabbi of RF.

    The mistake you are making is not in whether Judaism has a concept in Hell, but whether that Hell is the reason to practice Judaism. Being Jewish doesn't get you a ticket out of hell, and not being Jewish doesn't get you a ticket into it.
     
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