What is the most fundamental?

[Bobbyh]

What is the most fundamental aspect of existence, if not a central god or system of gods?

I believe it's the relationships required for forming information. Whatever those relationships are... is what I believe is the most fundamental aspect of existence.

What do you think?

 

[psychoslice]

Its simply living your life, we don't need any religions to live our life, its all there waiting for us to take what we want, its free, its life.

 

[Bobbyh]

Its simply living your life, we don't need any religions to live our life, its all there waiting for us to take what we want, its free, its life.

Right... but aside from your life, cause from what it looks like... we all die, and life ends. Meanwhile existence is still maintaining the others still living, or so it would seem.

So what about the most fundamental aspect of existence, life aside? Or would you say "life" is what makes existence possible? If so can you elaborate on that? Cause it sounds cool.

 

[psychoslice]

Right... but aside from your life, cause from what it looks like... we all die, and life ends. Meanwhile existence is still maintaining the others still living, or so it would seem.

So what about the most fundamental aspect of existence, life aside? Or would you say "life" is what makes existence possible? If so can you elaborate on that? Cause it sounds cool.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but I see life as that, life, everything comes into being and everything goes out of being, that is life. There are so many belief systems that try to offer us eternal life like a carrot on a stick. Why should we bother ?, isn't one life enough ?, its pure greed to want to live forever, no, enjoy this life, its the only one you and I will ever have.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What is the most fundamental aspect of existence,

It's fragility and uncertainty. It doesn't surprise me that people seek comfort in religious belief, but it often looks like whistling past the graveyard.

 

[Bobbyh]

I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

I'm trying to say what the words I typed mean. No underlying cryptic messages. Just literal word for word question aimed at people who think about existence and the wonder of it's being.

 

[Bobbyh]

It's fragility and uncertainty.

Okay so two things "Fragility", and "Uncertainty".

I wanna define Fragility as - easily malleable, or simple to change.

And I wanna define Uncertainty as - the opposite, or Impossible to change. "Un" is a negative prefix that expresses an inverse property, in this case of the term "Certainty"

So you have two descriptive expressions and each is essentially the opposite of the other, but together they describe a conflict or an asymmetry.

Well this is comparable to what is required for information to form. Information requires a relationship of comparable perspectives.

So can you understand how what you stated, and what I stated about being fundamental are actually the same thing? If we understand what the words describe and mean and think through it, we'll find that everything in existence is fragility and uncertainty, or through my interpretation of "the relationship that forms information" that is at the core of existence. Outside of this is nothing, and it's because of "nothing" that this is the case. This is self evident in understanding what makes information possible.

 

[Bunyip]

How are you defining 'information'?

 

[psychoslice]

I'm trying to say what the words I typed mean. No underlying cryptic messages. Just literal word for word question aimed at people who think about existence and the wonder of it's being.

Wow, that takes much more than mere words to answer that, and I don't think anyone could answer that.

 

[Bobbyh]

How are you defining 'information'?

What is a bit of information? It's an aspect of a boolean function like "binary". This computer is encoded in binary bits of information, either 1's or 0's in numerical language, but the character used is not important. A boolean or binary relationship can also be viewed as a variable.

Information is a variable formed from a comparable relationship.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I wanna define Fragility as - easily malleable, or simple to change.
And I wanna define Uncertainty as - the opposite, or Impossible to change. "Un" is a negative prefix that expresses an inverse property, in this case of the term "Certainty"

I used them in the generally accepted way. Fragile as in easily broken or disrupted. Uncertain as not certain, unpredictable. I think both are well descriptive of human existence.

 

[Bunyip]

Experience I guess is fundamental, it is our interaction with existence.

 

[Bobbyh]

I used them in the generally accepted way. Fragile as in easily broken or disrupted. Uncertain as not certain, unpredictable. I think both are well descriptive of human existence.

I understand. But I want to try and walk through what your thoughts and words actualy mean from an objective or linguistic expression, rather than inaccurately defined generalities of human points of view.

You cant express unpredictability without expressing predictability. When you use the word "unpredictability" you're expressing multiple expressions rich of information. The expression of predictability is accompanied by an inversion of predictability by prefacing it with "un". So you've expressed a very complex notion that can be further broken down to discover the fundamentals of the expression. In the end you're really left with an expression of asymmetry regardless of the words used or belief of intent. I hope to clarify this further over time.

To claim an intention of generaly accepted usage is to willfully choose denying accuracy, which is maybe very little different than believing in any belief.

I'll state the claim that all wording, thought, and linguistic expression is a variety of metaphorical categories that express spaciotemporal relationships. As people talk about fundamentals we can logically deduce the reality of existence, if you're open to thinking objectively and don't go into it wanting to argue for the sake of arguing but for the sake of understanding.

It's a difficult conversation to grasp and get into and most people get irritated trying.

But will you humor me and explore this notion further as I try to bring clarity about the intention of my thread?

(There were underlying messages afterall lol @psychoslice )

 

[Twilight Hue]

What is the most fundamental aspect of existence, if not a central god or system of gods?

I believe it's the relationships required for forming information. Whatever those relationships are... is what I believe is the most fundamental aspect of existence.

What do you think?

Impermanence.

 

[Bobbyh]

Experience I guess is fundamental, it is our interaction with existence.

I'd debate that experience requires multiple things and therefore is not fundamental.

Experience is an aspect of existence more than a fundamental reason for existence to be existing. Our interaction seems certainly very complicated and not fundamental, it requires us, which are human biology on earth etc etc, very complex. Think even more abstractly about the term fundamental and what it describes, regardless of specific contexts invoking humanity or anything like that.

However, the term experience, if we define it more accurately, describes an acknowledgement of relationships.

And this is also what I originally stated is the most fundamental aspect...that which is required to form information...relationships.

Experience is the acknowledgment of a relationship or relationships.

So for humans yes experience is basically right on, but to understand objectively, it's a little too complex to be fundamental, and we need to think more abstractly to deduce reality more accurately.

I'd appreciate if we could continue to evolve this notion. I believe this topic can take anyone willing all the way to an unprecedented understanding of reality.

 

[Bobbyh]

Impermanence.

Nice word! I've probably never heard it spoken actually.

This also falls into the same linguistic catacombs of having complex and rich information. Impermanence describes... first permanence, secondly the inverse of that.

Permanence describes "constancy", or "unchanging", or just as @Spiny Norman says, "Certainty", but prefaced with an inverse property as "Uncertainty" or Impermanence.

Now I assume we understand each of these words we're referring to have more specific meaning on their own than I am crediting exactly, like there are more unique implications within each word.

But at the core, the fundamental expressions of what they represent, and whatever existential objectivity they exist of, is the same, or at least I would like to address the notion of that being the case.


However this description, "Impermanence" is more fundamental than @Spiny Normans because it gets right to the asymmetrical core using a single term rather than the two of Fragility and Uncertainty combined. The term fundamental refers to getting to the bottom of things, and how simple they can be.

So far, can you recognize how in some ways all of our different ideas of what is fundamental... is actually the same expression? And how the definitions of the words could possibly all be interpreted as I'm suggesting?

 

[Bunyip]

I'd debate that experience requires multiple things and therefore is not fundamental.

Experience is an aspect of existence more than a fundamental reason for existence to be existing.

I didn't realise that you were asking why existence exists. I have misunderstood, sorry.

Our interaction seems certainly very complicated and not fundamental, it requires us, which are human biology on earth etc etc, very complex. Think even more abstractly about the term fundamental and what it describes, regardless of specific contexts invoking humanity or anything like that.

I know what fundamental means, but clearly have no idea what you are asking - I'll leave it there.

However, the term experience, if we define it more accurately, describes an acknowledgement of relationships.

And this is also what I originally stated is the most fundamental aspect...that which is required to form information...relationships.

Experience is the acknowledgment of a relationship or relationships.

So for humans yes experience is basically right on, but to understand objectively, it's a little too complex to be fundamental, and we need to think more abstractly to deduce reality more accurately.

I'd appreciate if we could continue to evolve this notion. I believe this topic can take anyone willing all the way to an unprecedented understanding of reality.

 

[Bobbyh]

I didn't realise that you were asking why existence exists. I have misunderstood, sorry. I know what fundamental means, but clearly have no idea what you are asking - I'll leave it there.

No don't be sorry please. I didn't ask why existence exists, only, "What is most fundamental about existence?" But this is essentially the same question.

I'm asking so we can explore others thoughts, and so I can share mine.

 

[Bunyip]

No don't be sorry please. I didn't ask why existence exists, only, "What is most fundamental about existence?" But this is essentially the same question.

I'm asking so we can explore others thoughts, and so I can share mine.

Why not just say what you want to say Bobby?

 

[Bobbyh]

Why not just say what you want to say Bobby?

Because it wouldn't mean much if we didn't walk there together. And I already did state what I think is most fundamental in the first post of the thread.

Now I'd like to see if people can understand how whatever they thought was most fundamental is actually the same thing as what I first stated. And if I can walk to that conclusion with anyone, then we can go further into understanding what is most fundamental of nature, existence, and ultimately answer the questions that people generally think are unanswerable regarding existential origin and what existence is, for real and in specific detail.