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Featured What is the meaning of Brahman's dreams or illusions (Maya) in Advaita Vedanta?

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by The Sum of Awe, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    A state of being that is unchanging, dispassionate, formless, and without attributes or qualities. It is known in Advaita Vedanta as "the fourth" (Turiya). You might find this explanation helpful:

    Advaita posits three states of consciousness, namely waking (jagrat), dreaming (svapna), deep sleep (suṣupti), which are empirically experienced by human beings,[6][7] and correspond to the Three Bodies Doctrine:[8]

    1. The first state is the waking state, in which we are aware of our daily world.[9] This is the gross body.
    2. The second state is the dreaming mind. This is the subtle body.[9]
    3. The third state is the state of deep sleep. This is the causal body.[9]
    Advaita also posits the fourth state of Turiya, which some describe as pure consciousness, the background that underlies and transcends these three common states of consciousness.[web 1][web 2] Turiya is the state of liberation, where according to the Advaita school, one experiences the infinite (ananta) and non-different (advaita/abheda), that is free from the dualistic experience, the state in which ajativada, non-origination, is apprehended.[10] According to Candradhara Sarma, Turiya state is where the foundational Self is realized, it is measureless, neither cause nor effect, all pervading, without suffering, blissful, changeless, self-luminous, real, immanent in all things and transcendent.[11] Those who have experienced the Turiya stage of self-consciousness have reached the pure awareness of their own non-dual Self as one with everyone and everything, for them the knowledge, the knower, the known becomes one, they are the Jivanmukta.[12][13][14]

    Turiya - Wikipedia

     
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  2. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA vAsudeva sarvaM iti
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    No :blush: I have never seen anyone ask that.

    MAyA is the non-existent illusion that it is. It is eternal on the objective ontological level, in the illusiory realm.
    That means mAyA does not stop and start.

    What stops and starts is the misidentified effect of the unchanging cause. There is creation and dissolution, but mAyA and avidyA remain for those who are entangled in mAyA.

    Aside from that, what happens is that the One in mAyA wakes up and realizes - this is/was mAyA.

    You are asking these questions (and so have many many ) because you are looking at Brahman' as a simple simplified entity , a local localized person or being.

    The mAyA is faced by those drowned in the mAyA. Brahman in the highest state is never touched by mAyA
    and is therefore called mAyA-pati. That does not make mAyA cease to exist for those within it.
     
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  3. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    Thank you, but I'm still confused.

    If we are Brahman, then how is Brahman never touched by Maya? Also, if Maya is endless, does that mean certain Jivas are stuck in Samsara forever and never will know themselves as Brahman?
     
  4. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA vAsudeva sarvaM iti
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    Brahman is the parmArthic dimension that is not touched by mAyA.

    Although we are Brahman as in Brahman became us, we are in samsAr. Only when we transcend mAyA can we truly say "aham BramhAsmi", not until then.

    No, it means the cycle of becoming continues, some other beings will be under mAyA, when Brahman frees itself thru those jeevas. The same jeevas will not be stuck forever.

    Actually,... there is a point -- Atyantik pralay? --- the largest outermost dissolution level, when nothing remains -- only Chaitanya remains -- purest super-consciousness. That is when all jivas in samsar at that point are given a free gift of moksha.

    So in that sense you are right, but mAyA by itself is dormant at that stage. She has not died. When a new _verse begins, mAyA is back at Her games.

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    I would also suggest you read posts by @atanu and @shivsomashekhar in the Vedanta threads - theology folder of Hinduism Dir
    They are very good with this, but while atanu is traditional Shivsomshekhar is radical.
     
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  5. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    So, are you saying that we're separate entities from Brahman until we reach Moksha?




    That's what I was basically describing in my OP. I can't find enough info on a google search of Atyantik Pralay but basically how I imagined is was that being the ultimate end goal for Brahman only for it to happen again like you said "Maya is back at Her games"

    But is this not a common Hindu view that it happens? Is it more widely believed that Maya never ends and there will always be Jivas?

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    I've read many of their posts, it's all very helpful information.
     
  6. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    Doesn't this sort of imply that Brahman could possibly be aware?


    ----
    Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden;
    Without distinctive marks, this all was water;
    That which, becoming, by the void was covered;
    That One by force of heat came into being;

    Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?

    Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute;
    Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not;
    Only He who is its overseer in highest heaven knows,
    Only He knows, or perhaps He does not know.

    — Rigveda 10:129-6[43][44][45]
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Jivas are an appearance in Brahman. They, in their true nature, are Atman, which is the same as Brahman. It is avidya that prevents a jiva from identifying with its true nature.

    When you dream, is your dream-self a separate entity from you? Of course not. Your dream-self is an appearance in your consciousness.
     
  8. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    Then I'm not understanding why we can't say "Aham Brahmasmi" until we're liberated, nor do I understand why Brahman is not touched by Maya: If we are Brahman and we are under Maya then that should mean Brahman is under Maya.
     
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