What is the Jewish Understanding of Exodus 6:3, YHWH, G-d, and Hashem?

[Ehav4Ever]

I see. However, that does not preclude him from having been a Jew at one time.

Again, we don't have proof either way and it doesn't matter because.....DRUM ROLL.....According to halakha once a Jew takes on ideas, like those found in the NT, they are no longer considered Jewish. Besides, most Jews who go the NT route, or other routes like it, they are normally working hard to seperate themselves from the Torath Mosheh Jewish community. The original Jewish christians did this, seperate themselves out, and they dissappeared 2 generations later.

Plus, the occurrence of him using the word "Hallelujah" is very strong circumstantial evidence that he may have once been a Jew.

Again, the word was known outside of the Jewish community by the time revelations is beleived to have been written. It isn't relevant to a Torath Mosheh Jew. The author wrote in Greek and discussed non-Torah based concepts.

Well, actually, beside references to Jesus and Christianity, the book of Revelation has very strong Jewish influence in it, therefore, in that aspect, it appears to be very Jewish related...

That is what you say. We Torath Mosheh Jews have a different opinion. We can also claim books written by non-Roman authors are Jewish using that criteria. Maybe even those who performed the Spanish Inquisition were Jewish because they wrote about Jewish topics. As far as Torath Mosheh Jews are concerned the minute that the author of revelations took out his pen/feather/stick to write he was doing so as someone who was not Jewish. The fact that he wrote in Greek also makes it clear who his audience was.

Also, I noticed that you mentioned that it's a theory that the actual author may not have been the one to initiate the information in the text, but then it seems like you make the conclusion that, "So, the author put into writing what he/she was being told what to include." But even if that theory is true, then either the person who actually wrote Revelation or the person who initiated the information to be written in the Revelation decided to include a lot of Jewish elements in Revelation. Therefore, I have a hard time negating that the Jewish elements in Revelation are not related to Jewishness.

As a Torath Mosheh Jew, all theories about revelation come back to the same point. It isn't relevant to Torath Mosheh Jews. It never was and it never will be. We go on for days speculating about why the author wrote what he/she did and why. It winds back at the same spot of - who cares? The author was living as a Torath Mosheh, the author wrote in a language that was not relevant to any Torath Mosheh Jew, and the authors intention has been lost to history. Lastly, the author did not produce a generation of Jews after himself/herself to keep his/her ideas going so. There you have it.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

About the potential. Figuratively. Because there are a lot of religions in this world, a lot of sects, even in Judaism, many bar mitzvahs with non-Jewish mothers, and many who do not even try to keep the law or go to synagogue. You know that.

I don't speak for all of that. Everyone you listed you will have to address them directly.

I speak for Torath Mosheh Jews which includes the following.

 

[YoursTrue]

During the time of, prior to the exile, they knew that the Shem HaMefurash was more than a pronunciation of consenants, vowels, and syllables. Also, during the generation that kept the Torah properly in the land of Israel there was not an issue, because they were very modest on how they did certain things. Thus, they had the ability to talk "Hebrew" in a way that currently is is not possible. Only certain ancient Jewish communities were able to keep a larger percentage of that.

For Israelis/Jews, that time will return - when the entire nation, living in the land of Israel wants it. YET, it won't be based on a pronunciation of consenants, vowels, and syllables of Hashem's name. It will be based on the entire nation doing the written Torah and oral Torah as Hashem gave it.

Trick question for you. Does the written Hebrew Tanakh contain the entire Israeli language from prior to 2,300 years ago or just the part of it relevant to the text? If not, who has the knowledge of what the rest of the language was?

So then, you believe the written AND oral Torah would be put into effect at a certain time by the entire nation?

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't speak for all of that. Everyone you listed you will have to address them directly.

I speak for Torath Mosheh Jews which includes the following.

P.S. Go prove they are Jews who claim they are Jews. Or maybe it doesn't matter to Torath Mosheh Jews as long as they say they are Jews?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So then, you believe the written AND oral Torah would be put into effect at a certain time by the entire nation?

Yes. It is described in the Tanakh and within the writings of the Talmud, Rishonim, and Ahhoronim.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

P.S. Go prove they are Jews who claim they are Jews. Or maybe it doesn't matter to Torath Mosheh Jews as long as they say they are Jews?

Proving someone is Jewish is easy. Here is a video I did about that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

According to the following all generations from Avraham ben-Terahh that kept the Torah properly.

L'shalom ...

... -->-->-->--> ignore-list​

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, during the time when there was a Torah based nation in the land of Israel and a functioning Temple in Jerusalem, there were a number of generations where the Kohen HaGadol and the other Kohenim, at specific times, would while stating things in Hebrew say the Name of Hashem. Please note, what was being said wasn't simply a "pronuciation" of consonants, vowels, and syllables. What they used to say they knew by way of a (מסורת) "mesoreth" i.e. a chain of transmission that had orally been taught from generation to generation.

Help me out here, please. Why did the high priest say the divine name out loud on Yom Kippur? I have read that he did, but the question is why?

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, we don't have proof either way and it doesn't matter because.....DRUM ROLL.....According to halakha once a Jew takes on ideas, like those found in the NT, they are no longer considered Jewish. Besides, most Jews who go the NT route, or other routes like it, they are normally working hard to seperate themselves from the Torath Mosheh Jewish community. The original Jewish christians did this, seperate themselves out, and they dissappeared 2 generations later.

They did? Kindly explain who separated themselves (not talking about individuals but groups), and more importantly, what time period? Thank you. Because that's an interesting point you bring out, and in reference to the accounts about the history written at the time. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

Proving someone is Jewish is easy. Here is a video I did about that.

I will look at it asap. However, someone in my family insists he is in the priestly tribe because that is what his father told him. So that's ok, I suppose without verification? Meanwhile, the father had 3 sons that we know about. Are they all priests?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

However, someone in my family insists he is in the priestly tribe because that is what his father told him.

He is free to insist what he likes.

Meanwhile, the father had 3 sons that we know about. Are they all priests?

Modernly, if they have a mesoreth from a valid Jewish source who can voich for their family history then that is enough, currently, for them to be considered Kohenim. During the time when there is a Torath based nation in the land of Israel they will need the Sanhedrin to rule on them.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

They did?

Yes, they sure did. That is why 2 generations later if someone were to ask, "Hey. Where are Peter's sons and grandsons? Are they beleivers in jesus like Peter was claimed to have been?" You would left with a big question mark. According to j4j they claim that the early Jewish Christians left the Torath Mosheh Jewish community during the Bar Kochva revolt.

After that point the early non-Jewish Christian Church made sure to label the remainders as heretics to christianity. Thus, the remainders like the Ebionites died out.

Kindly explain who separated themselves (not talking about individuals but groups), and more importantly, what time period?

The who is the early Jewish Christians. Meaning all of the remaining followers of the historical jesus/yeshu/yeshua/etc. Anyone who may have actually had a Jewish mother and father and was a christian.

Historically, once you get past the late 1st to mid-2nd century one cannot positively identify a community of Christian Jews who were either a) a part of the non-yeshu/jesus/etc. beleiving Jewish community or b) an independent christian community that could easily be indentified as living like Torath Mosheh Jews of the period.

Thank you. Because that's an interesting point you bring out, and in reference to the accounts about the history written at the time. Thanks.

No problem. I have brought it up a few times in other threads.

Why Torah based Jews would be unconvinced

Why Torah based Jews would be unconvinced

Simple Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus and Christianity

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Help me out here, please. Why did the high priest say the divine name out loud on Yom Kippur? I have read that he did, but the question is why?

It was part of the prayers that were said on Yom Kippur and part of the process of performing those duties based on a) the instruction of Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses) and b) rulings made by the Sanhedrins about how the service was to be performed.

 

[metis]

I think him questioning you being Catholic is in contrast to the title of the thread, "
What is the Jewish Understanding of Exodus 6:3, YHWH, G-d, and Hashem?

I.e. as a Catholic, how is what you are writing relevant to the "Jewish Understanding?"

I belonged to a synagogue [Reform] for over 20 years and taught several seminars there plus our Lunch & Learn program, alternating with my rabbi. I also spent time studying Judaism in Israel in 1991 and 1998. I also taught a comparative religions course for a couple of years.

IOW, no one has been able to shut me up.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I belonged to a synagogue [Reform] for over 20 years and taught several seminars there plus our Lunch & Learn program, alternating with my rabbi. I also spent time studying Judaism in Israel in 1991 and 1998. I also taught a comparative religions course for a couple of years.

Not relevant to what I brought up.

IOW, no one has been able to shut me up.

Not looking to shut you up. Responded to why David may have brought up you being Catholic. It is David's thread. If he sees what you stated as relevant in this thread, as he stated, then your comment meets his criteria.

 

[YoursTrue]

It was part of the prayers that were said on Yom Kippur and part of the process of performing those duties based on a) the instruction of Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses) and b) rulings made by the Sanhedrins about how the service was to be performed.

So I can only guess that the saying--not speaking here of the "proper pronunciation," which no one knows now--of the Name must be very important, similar to supersition as I see it. True the Law said to not say the Name (YHWH) in vain, I read it in synagogue many times, but it has become almost like a superstition for some to say God's name. And of course many churches have adopted the rule where they willfully go along with superstition by substituting LORD for YHWH even in the translations. (But not, so far in the Hebrew language Tanach, yes?, because the Hebrew characters are still there, yes? I saw them in synagogue.) Is it true that the Name YHWH is written in Hebrew versions (YHWH in Hebrew characters, of course) THOUSANDS of times, moreso than any other name in the Tanach, I believe. Correct me if that is wrong. At this point, I thank you for answering my questions and look forward to a wonderful future, promised, foretold, and established by the Almighty God whose name I am privileged to know and to put faith in the one true God whose name is YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, or however He is accurately and lovingly represented by those who love Him. Psalm 83:18, a good translation.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, they sure did. That is why 2 generations later if someone were to ask, "Hey. Where are Peter's sons and grandsons? Are they beleivers in jesus like Peter was claimed to have been?" You would left with a big question mark. According to j4j they claim that the early Jewish Christians left the Torath Mosheh Jewish community during the Bar Kochva revolt.

I am not a "Jew for Jesus," (j4j as you present it), have no big interest in them because I do not believe they represent the one true God as He is recognized in the holy scriptures. If I thought that they did, maybe I'd join them, but I am perfectly satisfied with what I have learned and do not agree with j4j anyway. Although the Bar Kochbar event is of interest, but not quite. Anyway, have a nice day, nice talking with you, thanks for your input.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

(But not, so far in the Hebrew language Tanach, yes?, because the Hebrew characters are still there, yes? I saw them in synagogue.) Is it true that the Name YHWH is written in Hebrew versions (YHWH in Hebrew characters, of course) THOUSANDS of times, moreso than any other name in the Tanach, I believe. Correct me if that is wrong.

As you can seen below the Name of Hashem is in the Hebrew text. Nothing was changed there.

Jewish Torah Scroll

Samaritan Torah

 

[David Davidovich]

Yes. Remember the videos I posted before?

Yemenite vs Samaritan vs Modern Hebrew (Can they understand each other?)

The Spielberg Jewish Film Archive - Yemen Music of the Yemenite Jews (English) (at 10:52 Yemenite Hebrew is described)

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to watching those yet, but I'll try to get around to them.

To put it simply. Until the state of Israel was established most Jewish communities were in heavy survival mode with some communities having little or no contact between them, due to the exile. Of course, there are some communities that had more contact than others but certain ideas took months if not years to be tranfer information of ideas. Yet, when the Modern State of Israel was founding there was a hard process of performing mass immigrations of Jewish communities from around the world. This of course allowed Jewish communities that may have had little to no contact with other, due to distance, to basically be right on top of each other.

Now, for decades there has been lots of research into the traditions of all ancient Jewish communities. Most of the best of this research is in Hebrew, for obvious reasons.

Further, there are some though, influenced by Western culture, who see anything that is originally Jewish from Jewish culture to be of no culturally worth. There are some who saw anything that was anciently Jewish as a something to steal and profit off of. There is a good video in Hebrew about this about people who stole ancient Torah scrolls, books, etc. from Yemenite Jews when they were brought to the Modern State of Israel. The people who stole these items then went and sold them either on the black market or to antiquities collectors and musuems. In this one video a Yemenite Jewish man described how when he was a kid and family immagrated here, his father gave him a book that had been in their family for generations to hold on to. When they were at the port, a man came up to him and asked to look at the book. He didn't think anything of it and he let the man see the book. The man ran off with the book. Years later, when the Yemenite man grew older he saw the stolen book at a book store and when he tried to tell the shop owner that the book belonged to his family and had his family's name signed in it the man warned that he would call the police on him. The Yemenite man went to the police and the police verbally abused him and told him to get out.

Further, the Iraqi Jewish community before leaving Iraq faced a situation where saddam huisan stole a large amount of documents from the Jewish community. See the following video with what happened when the Iraqi Jewish community tried to get those documents back.

I'm going to start a new thread based on the quote above because it would be too off topic for this thread.

 

[David Davidovich]

Again, we don't have proof either way and it doesn't matter because.....DRUM ROLL.....According to halakha once a Jew takes on ideas, like those found in the NT, they are no longer considered Jewish. Besides, most Jews who go the NT route, or other routes like it, they are normally working hard to seperate themselves from the Torath Mosheh Jewish community. The original Jewish christians did this, seperate themselves out, and they dissappeared 2 generations later.



Again, the word was known outside of the Jewish community by the time revelations is beleived to have been written. It isn't relevant to a Torath Mosheh Jew. The author wrote in Greek and discussed non-Torah based concepts.



That is what you say. We Torath Mosheh Jews have a different opinion. We can also claim books written by non-Roman authors are Jewish using that criteria. Maybe even those who performed the Spanish Inquisition were Jewish because they wrote about Jewish topics. As far as Torath Mosheh Jews are concerned the minute that the author of revelations took out his pen/feather/stick to write he was doing so as someone who was not Jewish. The fact that he wrote in Greek also makes it clear who his audience was.



As a Torath Mosheh Jew, all theories about revelation come back to the same point. It isn't relevant to Torath Mosheh Jews. It never was and it never will be. We go on for days speculating about why the author wrote what he/she did and why. It winds back at the same spot of - who cares? The author was living as a Torath Mosheh, the author wrote in a language that was not relevant to any Torath Mosheh Jew, and the authors intention has been lost to history. Lastly, the author did not produce a generation of Jews after himself/herself to keep his/her ideas going so. There you have it.

Okay, and thank you for your answers. Also, the reason why I continued to delve into this inquiry about Hallelujah is because the Jehovah's Witnesses make a REALLY BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS, AND I MEAN A REALLY BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS and stick their chests out and boast about how this Jewish phrase is proof that early Christians pronounced the Tetragrammaton, and that the Tetragrammaton was actually in the Christian Greek text but had been redacted from that text by superstitious scribes and that somehow, they, um, forgot to take out the "Praise Jah" phrase in Revelation. But I now have a different perspective about this.