What is the Jewish Understanding of Exodus 6:3, YHWH, G-d, and Hashem?

[rosends]

But what about the way that it is translated in different languages? Because a lot of languages don't have a "Y" or even a "J," therefore, they have to translate the Tetragrammaton in an entirely different way.
Like in Arabic it's يهوه
in Greek Ιεχωβά
in Hindi यहोवा
in Italian Geova
in Japanese エホバ
and in Welsh Đức Giê-hô-va.

click here: Translation of jehovah (definitions.net)
click here: Jehovah in different languages

the four letter name is not translated. It is not a word with a specific meaning to be translated into other languages.

It can be written using the letters of another language, letters which approximate the consonants used in the hebrew but without the vowels, the 4 letters themselves, in another language, are just letters.

What you have posted includes attempts at transliteration -- the transferring of pronunciation into letters of another language. That is predicated on assuming that we know the pronunciation in the Hebrew. We don't, so any pronunciation based representation in the letters of any language is wasted effort.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

We don't, so any pronunciation based representation in the letters of any language is wasted effort.

To strengthen your point. There is no ancient evidence that definitely states that Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey was ever pronounced based on something derived in ancient Semitic language/grammer. Especially since prior to the creation of the (ניקודות) there were no vowel markings in ancient Hebrew to even describe such an idea in writing.

 

[rosends]

To strengthen your point. There is no ancient evidence that definitely states that Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey was ever pronounced based on something derived in ancient Semitic language/grammer. Especially since prior to the creation of the (ניקודות) there were no vowel markings in ancient Hebrew to even describe such an idea in writing.

but we have a mesorah for how many words are pronounced -- often, though, the pronunciation is in line with a grammatical rule based on the structure of the word. Because of the nature of the 4 letter name as a "non-word" we can't intuit grammatically necessary vowels.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Exodus 3:15….(BibleHub)

New Living Translation
“God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.”

I hate it when folks mistranslate Mosheh's name.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

but we have a mesorah for how many words are pronounced -- often, though, the pronunciation is in line with a grammatical rule based on the structure of the word. Because of the nature of the 4 letter name as a "non-word" we can't intuit grammatically necessary vowels.

Right, that is what I am saying. The Rambam, for example, in the Moreh HaNevuchim mentions the following:

 

[David Davidovich]

Actually pulling out the text and reading it from its original langauges and proving that one has a proper understanding of what the content is talking about is how one proves they know what is in a text. Anyone can pick up an encyclopedia and claim they know something 2nd to 3rd hand. Please be aware the Jewish Encyclopedia is not considered, among Jews, as a final source of information. It has heavy biases in a particular direction that is not Torath Mosheh historically based.

What you're saying certainly makes sense to me, especially since the Encyclopedia claimed that:

"The Encyclopaedia Judaica says that “the avoidance of pronouncing the name YHWH . . . was caused by a misunderstanding of the Third Commandment.”

Because the way that they are stating it is that the Jews are too ignorant to understand the Third Commandment, however, they themselves are one of the only groups who do. But I guess that comes from the Christian belief that God ended his covenant and relationship with the Jews after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE and that they no longer have God's/Hashem's holy spirit and are now in the dark in regard to what the Hebrew text actually means.

I am certain that there are a handful fo JW's who took the time and energy to learn Talmudic Hebrew/Aramaic and read a few snippets here and there. Yet, that handful is nothing compared to the millions of Jews who have done and not just snippets but the entire text, over and over and over again.

Once again, that makes more sense to me.

 

[David Davidovich]

Yes, I agree, but that wasn't my point as I generally don't have a problem with translations.

I'm sorry, but what is your point? Because you said:

metis said: ↑
"Yahweh" and "Jehovah" are translations that cannot be verified as being accurate, plus there's no "J" sound in Hebrew as it would be pronounced as a "Y".

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said: ↑
Also, that brings up the question of how it should be translated or pronounced in other languages? Should they stick with the Hebrew letters and the way it's pronounced in Hebrew (whatever that is)?

IMO, not really, as the main purpose of language is to communicate, thus if I post "YHWH" instead of "God", some English speakers may not understand whom I'm referring to.

Well, I would say that most English speakers would understand what you would have been referring to because most English speakers generally understand that YHWH, Yahweh, or Jehovah are referring to the name of God. However, what I was asking about was how should the Tetragrammaton be pronounced or written in foreign languages such as Egyptian, Italian, Arabic, Greek, etc. Should it be pronounced and written phonetically in Hebrew, or in their own foreign languages?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

..., what I was asking about was how should the Tetragrammaton be pronounced or written in foreign languages such as Egyptian, Italian, Arabic, Greek, etc. Should it be pronounced and written phonetically in Hebrew, or in their own foreign languages?

Why are you asking?

 

[David Davidovich]

Why are you asking?

Because it's part of the thread topic?

 

[metis]

I'm sorry, but what is your point? Because you said:

There were two points I made, with one being that "Yahweh" and "Jehovah" are translations, thus not the "original", and that good communication is more important than political correctness, imo.

 

[metis]

However, what I was asking about was how should the Tetragrammaton be pronounced or written in foreign languages such as Egyptian, Italian, Arabic, Greek, etc. Should it be pronounced and written phonetically in Hebrew, or in their own foreign languages?

See my post above.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

What you're saying certainly makes sense to me, especially since the Encyclopedia claimed that:

"The Encyclopaedia Judaica says that “the avoidance of pronouncing the name YHWH . . . was caused by a misunderstanding of the Third Commandment.”

Because the way that they are stating it is that the Jews are too ignorant to understand the Third Commandment, however, they themselves are one of the only groups who do. But I guess that comes from the Christian belief that God ended his covenant and relationship with the Jews after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE and that they no longer have God's/Hashem's holy spirit and are now in the dark in regard to what the Hebrew text actually means.

Exactly, and the Ecyclopedia Judaica has a lot of Christians influence in it.....a lot. A lot more than I would expect than it would if it were made by someone who is Torath Mosheh based. In fact, there are a few Encyclopedias produced by Torath Mosheh Jews that are way better. Yet, they are only in Hebrew. Here are a few of them.

https://talmudit18.wixsite.com/talmudit

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said: ↑
However, what I was asking about was how should the Tetragrammaton be pronounced or written in foreign languages such as Egyptian, Italian, Arabic, Greek, etc. Should it be pronounced and written phonetically in Hebrew, or in their own foreign languages?

See my post above.

So, then are you saying that the Tetragrammaton should be pronounced and written in people's own foreign languages?

 

[David Davidovich]

So, then are you saying that the Tetragrammaton should be pronounced and written in people's own foreign languages?

crickets chirping?

 

[dybmh]

crickets chirping?

Does post#41 answer your question?

 

[David Davidovich]

Does post#41 answer your question?

Okay, thanks. I must have not absorbed all that before, however, it seemed as if metis (whom I was asking), was saying just the opposite, which was...

There were two points I made, with one being that "Yahweh" and "Jehovah" are translations, thus not the "original", and that good communication is more important than political correctness, imo.

However, I did just notice that he or she is Catholic.

 

[David Davidovich]

Okay, thanks. I must have not absorbed all that before, however, it seemed as if metis (whom I was asking), was saying just the opposite, which was...



However, I did just notice that he or she is Catholic.

I read metis' post #40 again and it appears that he or she is saying that communication is better than using 4 letters or some sort of transliteration of the 4 letters to represent God...

IMO, not really, as the main purpose of language is to communicate, thus if I post "YHWH" instead of "God", some English speakers may not understand whom I'm referring to.

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said: ↑
But do you have any idea why the Jewish turned Christian, the Apostle John, would include an abbreviated form of the Tetragrammaton (Hallelujah) in the Christian Bible?

The first challenge here is that there is no evidence that the author of the "gospel" called John was a Jew, let alone content provided by someone who was a direct student of jesus. See the below.

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View attachment 64475View attachment 64476

I'm just now reading all of this, therefore, wouldn't the fact that the author of the book of Revelation even used Hallelujah indicate that at one time he was a Jew?

As to your question as to why the non-Jewish Christian author of John used it. Most likely because he was told by someone to use and because for Jews there is no reason to say or write within the proper contexts.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Who was and why would "someone" tell the author of Revelation to include Hallelujah 4 times at Revelation 19:1-7?

19 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:

"Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
2 for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

3 And again they shouted:

“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”

4 The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried:

“Amen, Hallelujah!”

5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying:

“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both great and small!”

6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.

 

[metis]

However, I did just notice that he or she is Catholic.

So?