What is the Jewish Understanding of Exodus 6:3, YHWH, G-d, and Hashem?

[YoursTrue]

Your interpretation is one you learned from JW leaders and not from the reading the actual Hebrew text. You are free to have the one you learned from JW leaders and I am free to have the instruction that Mosheh ben-Amram taught to Torath Mosheh Jews.

Naturally you can and will believe what you want, as many people do.
I learned what I learned in synagogue, yes it was a reform synagogue. They never taught much, as my uncle (Sephardic) told me when I began learning really the Bible and read about Elijah and Elisha, something they did not teach in my synagogue, resurrecting ones, he told me at the Seder it was all tradition, you can't really believe the Bible, he said. I went to synagogue regularly. As for the Seder, that's with the yarmulkas, going through the Haggadah. Thus when I learned more with Jehovah's Witnesses, who were not among those killing the Jews in Nazi Germany, I really began learning. I went to the library constantly to check out what I was learning. I called the Jewish Theological Seminary because I wanted to make sure of what I was learning.
I enjoyed the Friday night services, the music -- singing along with the congregation sitting with my parents. Of course they were Ashkenazik songs. But after that, I went to college, left home, and eventually decided there is no God. Until I met and studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses.
P.S. I can compare texts and research them. You, frankly, have explained nothing. Not a put down, just the truth. I hope you make progress.

 

[YoursTrue]

But if you accept all the rest (the events in the Torah and its laws), then you should accept the Jewish law and tradition about this. But since you are not Jewish, what you decide to do with the name is irrelevant.

We're not discussing the Law now. If we get to that point, perhaps we can talk about it. Right now we're talking about the name of God, and that it's definitely in the scriptures thousands of times, more than any other name.

 

[rosends]

We're not discussing the Law now. If we get to that point, perhaps we can talk about it. Right now we're talking about the name of God, and that it's definitely in the scriptures thousands of times, more than any other name.

Yes, but the law is part of the text and the text is part of the law.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but the law is part of the text and the text is part of the law.

The thread is about God's name. I don't want to divert now to something else, although the history of Israel, Moses, and Abraham is fabulously interesting. So out of respect, I'll stop here in this thread. Thanks.

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said: ↑
I have another related question for Torath Mosheh Jews/Orthodox Jews concerning Jesus' usage of the Tetragrammaton. And I think that it is a very logical question: Since Jesus was a practicing Torah-observing Jew, as a Torath Mosheh Jew/Orthodox Jew, do you think that Jesus would not have literally pronounced יהוה as it was the custom of Jews during that time not to have?

The problem with the question is that there is evidence that the "historical" jesus or the Jewish indivitual who inspired the jesus story was a "Torath Mosheh Jews." There are some sources that state that "initially" the "historical" Jew that the jesus character of the NT was based on "may have" kept the Torah - potentially in his youth. Yet, according to accounts of his later life he was not considered a Torath Mosheh Jew. According to Jewish accounts, near the end of his life he was considered what we call a (מין) or a (אפיקורס) both of these are Jews who go against a foundation of the Torah, in one way or another, in a way where they have no place in the world to come.

I see. However, whether he was or wasn't a practicing Torath Mosheh Jew, wasn't it the tradition of first century Jews in general to NOT pronounce the Tetragrammaton? And the reason why I ask is: Let's say for the sake of argument that the first century man named Jesus was a real person... Well, would it have been HIGHLY unusual for him and other first century Jews to be pronouncing the Tetragrammaton on a regular basis? And the reason why I ask this is because Jehovah's Witnesses claim that when Jesus came on the scene, he and his Jewish disciples actually RESTORED the use of pronouncing the Tetragrammaton, which had gone out of use by the Jews of that time. Therefore, according to your opinion as a Jew, does this sound historical or even realistic for Jesus and his disciples to have (restored?) or to have (started back up?) this trend among the Jews?

 

[David Davidovich]

It's not respect. That is, even to say adonai is in a similar vein if one knows who is being referred to. Psalm 83 verse 18 makes this also clear, depending which arrangement of scripture one uses. Anyway, have a good one.

But, YoursTrue, why would you think that Jehovah is a proper pronunciation of the Tetragrammoton since it uses the vowels of Adonai?

 

[David Davidovich]

But if you accept all the rest (the events in the Torah and its laws), then you should accept the Jewish law and tradition about this.

But perhaps YoursTrue doesn't even know the rest of the events in the Torah or the Jewish traditions about it since she was not raised as Torath Mosheh Jew.

 

[rosends]

But perhaps YoursTrue doesn't even know the rest of the events in the Torah or the Jewish traditions about it since she was not raised as Torath Mosheh Jew.

So then judging something as disrespectful or a cover up would be doubly insulting.

 

[David Davidovich]

So then judging something as disrespectful or a cover up would be doubly insulting.

Well, that's a Jehovah's Witness for you.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I see. However, whether he was or wasn't a practicing Torath Mosheh Jew, wasn't it the tradition of first century Jews in general to NOT pronounce the Tetragrammaton?

During that time. Yes.

And the reason why I ask is: Let's say for the sake of argument that the first century man named Jesus was a real person... Well, would it have been HIGHLY unusual for him and other first century Jews to be pronouncing the Tetragrammaton on a regular basis?

The question that you face with your question is, what would someone in the 1st century been saying in the first place? Given that a number of invasions had taken place, war against Hellonized Jews, and a Roman occupation it is hard to say that any normal Torah based Jew would have felt comfortable at that time pronouncing something that had not been common for them to pronounce in prior generations due to the type of events I mentioned earlier. Further, it would have probably been possible that some fringe group got started, claiming to know things and the secret keys to something, that they used as a type of "magic charm" to convince someone they were in control of Hashem. That is actually one of the stories that exist, from a Jewish perspective, about "the" or "one of the" historical jesus's. I.e. that he/they were going around claiming to have special powers from "potentially" knowing how to pronounce Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey.

And the reason why I ask this is because Jehovah's Witnesses claim that when Jesus came on the scene, he and his Jewish disciples actually RESTORED the use of pronouncing the Tetragrammaton, which had gone out of use by the Jews of that time. Therefore, according to your opinion as a Jew, does this sound historical or even realistic for Jesus and his disciples to have (restored?) or to have (started back up?) this trend among the Jews?

Those guys a again? Let's take it from the reverse angle and answer the following questions.

1. How old is the JW's movement?
2. Who started it and how fluent was he/she proven to be in ancient Hebrew?
3. Were the original Jewish Christians JW's and does the current JW movement descend from them?
4. What credentials does this movement have that cause a Jew who comes from an unbroken line of Hebrew/Aramaic experts to a JW?

W/o answering these questions I would not even begin to take such an organization seriously. Now, if someone else sees them as having a valid pedigree in the topic I am not here to argue with them. It just isn't relevant to me.

 

[David Davidovich]

The question that you face with your question is, what would someone in the 1st century been saying in the first place? Given that a number of invasions had taken place, war against Hellonized Jews, and a Roman occupation it is hard to say that any normal Torah based Jew would have felt comfortable at that time pronouncing something that had not been common for them to pronounce in prior generations due to the type of events I mentioned earlier.

That makes sense.

Further, it would have probably been possible that some fringe group got started, claiming to know things and the secret keys to something, that they used as a type of "magic charm" to convince someone they were in control of Hashem. That is actually one of the stories that exist, from a Jewish perspective, about "the" or "one of the" historical jesus's. I.e. that he/they were going around claiming to have special powers from "potentially" knowing how to pronounce Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey.

Well, that's interesting. Because you-know-who teaches that because Jesus had God's holy spirit (that's a interesting Torath Mosheh Jews topic) and was God's first-born angel and had the closest relationship to God than any other creation, and was therefore, God's advocate and vindicator, when he came on the scene, he 'restored' the use of and the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton. Although, since Jesus and his disciples primarily spoke Aramaic, I wonder how he pronounced the 4 letters.

Those guys a again?

Well, you should thank Hashem that you were never indoctrinated by them because their logic is very seductive. Also, I once heard or read that for some people who have been indoctrinated by them, it's a lifetime process to undo the indoctrination that you've received from them. Even if it's been years since you've separated yourself from them.

Let's take it from the reverse angle and answer the following questions.

1. How old is the JW's movement?

Since the late 19th century (i.e. late 1800s).

1. Who started it and how fluent was he/she proven to be in ancient Hebrew?

1. A guy named Charles Taze Russel.

   Qualifications[edit]
   In June 1912, Rev. J. J. Ross (1871–1935), Pastor of the James Street Baptist Church in Hamilton, Ontario, published and widely distributed a four-page leaflet titled, Some Facts about the Self-Styled "Pastor" Charles T. Russell (of Millennial Dawn Fame). He alleged that Russell was involved in questionable business practices, had defrauded his estranged wife, and denounced his qualifications, legitimacy and moral example as a Pastor.[92] Russell, in turn, sued Ross for defamatory libel on December 2, 1912.[93] After several delays the case came before Police Court Magistrate George H. Jelfs on March 17, 1913. During cross-examination Russell said that he had attended public school for seven years, having left when he was about fourteen years of age, after which he received instruction through private tutors.[94] He said that he was versed in Latin terms "to an extent" but did not know Hebrew or Greek, that he had never been ordained by any bishop or minister, and had never attended a theological seminary or any schools of higher learning.[95][96]

   click here: Charles Taze Russell - Wikipedia

   [*]Were the original Jewish Christians JW's and does the current JW movement descend from them?

   They think they were. lol

   [*]What credentials does this movement have that cause a Jew who comes from an unbroken line of Hebrew/Aramaic experts to a JW?

   I would say none whatsoever. Although, as we've seen with our friend, they would cause Jews who are not from an unbroken line of Hebrew/Aramaic experts to be swayed to become a JW. But they say it's usually because of some sort of brokenness or emptiness or need that causes people to be swayed by them.

W/o answering these questions I would not even begin to take such an organization seriously. Now, if someone else sees them as having a valid pedigree in the topic I am not here to argue with them. It just isn't relevant to me.

You're one of the lucky ones.