What is the difference between the new and old covenant?

[metis]

But if you say we can forget the seventh day abd only honor the first day, then you are not doing what God wants.

The scriptures rather clearly say that the Ten Commandments and the other Commandments were given to Jews per the Sinai Experience, and in Judaism the teaching is that it doesn't directly apply to Gentiles but hope that it eventually will through their choice. If you or anyone else chooses to observe Shabbat, I certainly don't have even one iota of a problem with that, and it seems that you really don't either, so we're pretty much on the same page, right? .

 

[loverofhumanity]

What is the Christian perspective of the New Covenant? I know they refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34 whereas with regards to the house of Israel and house of Judah,I will put "My law within them", as their new covenant, but the nations/Gentiles are not mentioned, and they, nor Jacob apparently "Know the LORD", the final product of the "new covenant", and do not have to teach each other to "Know the LORD".

As for the original covenant, "My law", if one was to keep it, they would not suffer the plagues of Egypt, yet Jacob, did not keep it and have been under judgment ever since. Whereas the Christians and their proposed new covenant, the false gospel of grace by the false prophet Paul, has not sheltered them from the plagues of Egypt as well.

"My law" of the first covenant seemed to be pivoted around loving your neighbor by not stealing from him, defrauding him or killing him, and if he was in need to feed him. If you didn't take care of him, well, one faces judgment (Mt 25:32) & (Ezekiel 34). Yeshua's comment on the matter was that if one didn't do this, which was produce good fruit, one would be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10), even if one repented and was baptized.

On the other hand, the Christians apparently think that under their "new covenant", that they are "saved", and no good works, such as helping their neighbors are required. They think they will escape death and destruction, yet their track record has not been good. Have they like Eve, eaten the forbidden fruit and think they will not die, yet will in effect, like "every one" will die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30).

Many Christians I know are amongst the most loving and beautiful people I have ever met. They feed the poor and help the downtrodden and lonely. In my area they are a credit to the town. I found in them only humility and loving kindness. Often the local priest rings me up to see how I am and I am of a different religion!!

One day I met him in church and the first thing he said to me is that he visited our temple and took the bishop with him and also bought a Baha’i prayer book.

I live in a small unit and these Christian friends often would drop in and they noticed my door needed painting and wanted to paint it. I got permission from the landlord and they painted it!

Also when I was very sick they took me to have blood tests and to the pharmacy to get medicines. They never asked for anything in return and we are good friends. In my religion people like this are definitely saved as they are lovers of all humanity and their deeds attest the truth of their belief.

 

[MNoBody]

yet, from personal experience i have seen these same friendly loving souls [non-denominational christians] turn face and ostracize and treat as pariah, me because I was exploring judaism and considering converting...which was surprising and educational...still the cold shoulder treatment as if one no longer exists.....my experience going from christian to naohide to whatever non-pigeon hole position I am currently defined by

 

[2ndpillar]

Many Christians I know are amongst the most loving and beautiful people I have ever met. They feed the poor and help the downtrodden and lonely. In my area they are a credit to the town. I found in them only humility and loving kindness. Often the local priest rings me up to see how I am and I am of a different religion!!

One day I met him in church and the first thing he said to me is that he visited our temple and took the bishop with him and also bought a Baha’i prayer book.

I live in a small unit and these Christian friends often would drop in and they noticed my door needed painting and wanted to paint it. I got permission from the landlord and they painted it!

Also when I was very sick they took me to have blood tests and to the pharmacy to get medicines. They never asked for anything in return and we are good friends. In my religion people like this are definitely saved as they are lovers of all humanity and their deeds attest the truth of their belief.

Apparently your "Christian friends" are following the testimony of Yeshua (Matthew 25:35), who is the manifestation of the law and the prophets, and heeding the prophets (Jeremiah 34), which would come under what is termed the old covenant by your "Christian friends". On the other hand, if they actually believe Paul and his twisted "new covenant" rhetoric, they believe they are saved by simply believing Christ was the son of God and died on a cross for them, and that they shall surely live forever (Gen 3:4) apart from painting your door. The fact is "everyone shall die for their own iniquities"/sins (Jer 31:30), and the covenant God made with Israel is still in force, and not "obsolete", as your friends falsely believe. Your friends will continue to die and suffer the plagues of Egypt, as well as yourself. As for the false prophet of your own religion, well, there are many false prophets, whose followers need their medicines. The focus of the covenant God made with Israel was that if they kept His covenant, they would not fall victim to the plagues of Egypt. Apparently they didn't keep his covenant, and suffered the consequences. Your friends suffer the consequences daily under the false belief that the covenant of God has been made obsolete. Nevertheless, as they keep that original covenant, they will march on, despite their false belief system. Because they have the wisdom to heed the message of the old covenant and Yeshua, does not mean their beliefs are above reproach. As for your friendly priest, the founders of the reform churches considered him an integral part of the whore of Babylon. Do these other churches have a foundation of false belief, and yet can be nice to you? Can being nice to you mean that their belief is true, and your priest and his house is a daughter of Babylon, and will fall?

 

[2ndpillar]

yet, from personal experience i have seen these same friendly loving souls [non-denominational christians] turn face and ostracize and treat as pariah, me because I was exploring judaism and considering converting...which was surprising and educational...still the cold shoulder treatment as if one no longer exists.....my experience going from christian to naohide to whatever non-pigeon hole position I am currently defined by

Well the Protestants burning the Catholics in England, and the churches burning the witches, and the Catholics burning Joan of Arch as part of the Inquisition, and the Jews being burned, tortured, robbed, and thrown out of Spain, kind of puts out a balanced view of the actual fruits of the churches built on the foundation of Peter (Catholic) and Paul (Protestant). We won't go into the child molestations of the Roman priests, the mafia bank connection with the Vatican, etc.

 

[MNoBody]

Well the Protestants burning the Catholics in England, and the churches burning the witches, and the Catholics burning Joan of Arch as part of the Inquisition, and the Jews being burned, tortured, robbed, and thrown out of Spain, kind of puts out a balanced view of the actual fruits of the churches built on the foundation of Peter (Catholic) and Paul (Protestant). We won't go into the child molestations of the Roman priests, the mafia bank connection with the Vatican, etc.

and much more ad nauseum...story reads like a horror story in so many ways..... I am well aware

 

[loverofhumanity]

Apparently your "Christian friends" are following the testimony of Yeshua (Matthew 25:35), who is the manifestation of the law and the prophets, and heeding the prophets (Jeremiah 34), which would come under what is termed the old covenant by your "Christian friends". On the other hand, if they actually believe Paul and his twisted "new covenant" rhetoric, they believe they are saved by simply believing Christ was the son of God and died on a cross for them, and that they shall surely live forever (Gen 3:4) apart from painting your door. The fact is "everyone shall die for their own iniquities"/sins (Jer 31:30), and the covenant God made with Israel is still in force, and not "obsolete", as your friends falsely believe. Your friends will continue to die and suffer the plagues of Egypt, as well as yourself. As for the false prophet of your own religion, well, there are many false prophets, whose followers need their medicines. The focus of the covenant God made with Israel was that if they kept His covenant, they would not fall victim to the plagues of Egypt. Apparently they didn't keep his covenant, and suffered the consequences. Your friends suffer the consequences daily under the false belief that the covenant of God has been made obsolete. Nevertheless, as they keep that original covenant, they will march on, despite their false belief system. Because they have the wisdom to heed the message of the old covenant and Yeshua, does not mean their believes are above reproach. As for your friendly priest, the founders of the reform churches considered him an integral part of the whore of Babylon. Do these other churches have a foundation of false believe, and yet can be nice to you? Can being nice to you mean that their belief is true, and your priest and his house is a daughter of Babylon, and will fall?

I believe people were created in the image of God, that is, they were created good and if they are good then they are reflecting the image of God in their lives. The more people reflect the image of God, that is, His attributes, the more godly they are regardless of outward belief.

Also I believe that the Prophets of God were perfect images of God and whoever follows Their ways comes closer to God.

God has sent many Prophets to this world each with differing missions. Just because Their missions were different does not mean They were false. On the contrary we see Moses bring the Ten Commandments and lead the Jews out of captivity to the Promised Land, Christ delivering the Beatitudes and the law of love. Muhammad united the warring and savage tribes of Arabia into a great nation and now Baha’u’llah has appeared to bring unity between religions, nations and races.

God looks after all humanity and cares for us all so guides us all by sending Prophets or Educators so we can learn to know and to love Him.

The greatest preacher of Christianity was not any Christian minister but Prophet Muhammad as He spread the knowledge of and belief in Jesus to over 1.6 billion people so far, a feat which not the combined forces of all Christianity could achieve.

If we open our minds I believe we can see clearly that These Educators confirmed the truth of all the former Prophets and upheld Their teachings and told Their followers to accept Them.


However whenever God sends His Representatives They are always at first rejected, stoned, exiled, imprisoned, tortured and crucified but eventually win the hearts and minds of men everywhere as we see now. But because They bring new teachings suited for the new age and abolish some old ones They are persecuted. This has always been the way of men to reject every new Prophet God sends because He comes with a different message.

 

[metis]

I hate to say this, but isn't the position "My church is so pure and yours is so evil" rather childish, much like a variation of "My daddy is bigger than your daddy"?

Guess what? All institutions have both good and bad in them, so when one points their finger at someone else, maybe they should look and see the three of their own fingers pointing right back at themselves.

As long as churches are made up of human beings, don't expect perfection, and this was very much true with the Apostles themselves and they knew and admitted it. Too bad some here at RF can't bring themselves to do that as they strut around like peacocks tearing down the churches of others but never theirs.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The scriptures rather clearly say that the Ten Commandments and the other Commandments were given to Jews per the Sinai Experience, and in Judaism the teaching is that it doesn't directly apply to Gentiles but hope that it eventually will through their choice. If you or anyone else chooses to observe Shabbat, I certainly don't have even one iota of a problem with that, and it seems that you really don't either, so we're pretty much on the same page, right? .

Yes we are mostly on the same page. I do not care who does or does not observe anything. But even tough the commandments were given to the Jews, Jesus said that anyone who would enter into like should keep the commandments. That makes it sound like now others besides the Jews are included. I do not care who does or does not follow what. But maybe God does. Just maybe.

 

[metis]

But even tough the commandments were given to the Jews, Jesus said that anyone who would enter into like should keep the commandments. That makes it sound like now others besides the Jews are included. I do not care who does or does not follow what. But maybe God does. Just maybe.

As a point of clarification, do you mean all 613 Commandments as given in Torah [Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)], which clearly go well beyond just the first Ten? Keeping kosher, for example? all the various Shabbat Laws?

And remember Jesus saying there were Two Commandments, and 2 =/= 613.

Anyway, take care as I'm outta here for the weekend shortly.

 

[rrobs]

The scriptures rather clearly say that the Ten Commandments and the other Commandments were given to Jews per the Sinai Experience, and in Judaism the teaching is that it doesn't directly apply to Gentiles but hope that it eventually will through their choice. If you or anyone else chooses to observe Shabbat, I certainly don't have even one iota of a problem with that, and it seems that you really don't either, so we're pretty much on the same page, right? .

Good point. The Sabbath is a day of rest. Hebrews was written to NT Jews. There is a lot said about the rest God intended for His people in the 4th chapter. Suffice it to say, a day of week is not what God really wanted for them. With the death and resurrection of Jesus, the true rest has come. A particular day of the week, as was the the rest of the law, merely a shadow of things to come, i.e. Jesus. The 10th chapter of Hebrews has much to say about that.

Galatians also has something to say about the the law.

Gal 3:24-25,

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
​

I don't know how those verses could be taken as saying anything other than faith trumps the law. This faith, whatever it is (another subject), was not available in the OT, so the law was a stopgap measure of sorts. There are many NT verses that say, more of less, the same thing. Of course anybody is free to try and follow the law, but it will always be a loosing proposition.

Jas 2:10,

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.​

One lie and the liar is as guilty as the murderer. This is why it's not a good thing to judge others. Point one finger at someone else and you have 4 point right back at ya! (I mean the proverbial you, not you personally, although it does apply to you and I).

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe people were created in the image of God, that is, they were created good and if they are good then they are reflecting the image of God in their lives. The more people reflect the image of God, that is, His attributes, the more godly they are regardless of outward belief.

Also I believe that the Prophets of God were perfect images of God and whoever follows Their ways comes closer to God.

God has sent many Prophets to this world each with differing missions. Just because Their missions were different does not mean They were false. On the contrary we see Moses bring the Ten Commandments and lead the Jews out of captivity to the Promised Land, Christ delivering the Beatitudes and the law of love. Muhammad united the warring and savage tribes of Arabia into a great nation and now Baha’u’llah has appeared to bring unity between religions, nations and races.

God looks after all humanity and cares for us all so guides us all by sending Prophets or Educators so we can learn to know and to love Him.

The greatest preacher of Christianity was not any Christian minister but Prophet Muhammad as He spread the knowledge of and belief in Jesus to over 1.6 billion people so far, a feat which not the combined forces of all Christianity could achieve.

If we open our minds I believe we can see clearly that These Educators confirmed the truth of all the former Prophets and upheld Their teachings and told Their followers to accept Them.


However whenever God sends His Representatives They are always at first rejected, stoned, exiled, imprisoned, tortured and crucified but eventually win the hearts and minds of men everywhere as we see now. But because They bring new teachings suited for the new age and abolish some old ones They are persecuted. This has always been the way of men to reject every new Prophet God sends because He comes with a different message.

As for Muhamad being the greatest preacher (false prophet), well the fruits of his religion are self evident in that to get into heaven and have 70 "virgins"/dates, you have to kill the specified non believers, and in the mean time, you can pretend friendship, and lie to them. The results being one Muslim kills their brother Muslims, as in Shia versus Sunni and as in Baha'i was persecuted by his Muslim brothers. As for them being blessed, I don't see it.

As for "Christ"/Yeshua, his message was to repent, be baptized and bear fruit. If you don't bear fruit, he mentioned that he would cut the non producing tree down and burn it. (Mt 3)

As for prophets, Yeshua said there would be many false prophets coming, all wearing sheep's clothing, or trying to portray themselves in God's image. (Mt 7)

 

[2ndpillar]

Good point. The Sabbath is a day of rest. Hebrews was written to NT Jews. There is a lot said about the rest God intended for His people in the 4th chapter. Suffice it to say, a day of week is not what God really wanted for them. With the death and resurrection of Jesus, the true rest has come. A particular day of the week, as was the the rest of the law, merely a shadow of things to come, i.e. Jesus. The 10th chapter of Hebrews has much to say about that.

Galatians also has something to say about the the law.

Gal 3:24-25,

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
​

I don't know how those verses could be taken as saying anything other than faith trumps the law. This faith, whatever it is (another subject), was not available in the OT, so the law was a stopgap measure of sorts. There are many NT verses that say, more of less, the same thing. Of course anybody is free to try and follow the law, but it will always be a loosing proposition.

Jas 2:10,

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.​

One lie and the liar is as guilty as the murderer. This is why it's not a good thing to judge others. Point one finger at someone else and you have 4 point right back at ya! (I mean the proverbial you, not you personally, although it does apply to you and I).

I would suggest that you neither lie nor commit murder. (Revelation 22:15) As for judging others, the general "Crhistian" believes that if you don't believe Paul's tripe, you will be sentenced to a everlasting hell in a lake of fire. There is no everlasting torment for anyone who does not have eternal life. That apparently is reserved for the false prophet, the beast and the devil (Rev 20:10). On the other hand, for those who have not entered into life, which requires keeping the commandments (Mt 19:16-19) they can taste a second death, which is the end of everything. Their hell is limited to their life on earth as the walking dead. The message of Yeshua was life or death, and more pointedly, spiritual life and death while on earth. Spiritual life on earth translates to a life after death.

 

[rrobs]

I would suggest that you neither lie nor commit murder. (Revelation 22:15) As for judging others, the general "Crhistian" believes that if you don't believe Paul's tripe, you will be sentenced to a everlasting hell in a lake of fire. There is no everlasting torment for anyone who does not have eternal life. That apparently is reserved for the false prophet, the beast and the devil (Rev 20:10). On the other hand, for those who have not entered into life, which requires keeping the commandments (Mt 19:16-19) they can taste a second death, which is the end of everything. Their hell is limited to their life on earth as the walking dead. The message of Yeshua was life or death, and more pointedly, spiritual life and death while on earth. Spiritual life on earth translates to a life after death.

Why discuss tripe at all?

 

[2ndpillar]

Why discuss tripe at all?

Your missing the point. We are at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:39) & (Daniel 12:9-13) & (Matthew 7:23), where everything hidden will be revealed, and where the "stumbling blocks" (Peter)(Mt 16:23), and "those who commit lawlessness" and "practice lawlessness" (Paul) must be "gathered up and burned". As with Nineveh, God always gives fair warning to repent or suffer the consequences. The tares have been protected until the "harvest" (Mt 13:27-30), and then "first" the tares will be gathered up and burned. You should not be quaking in your boots about conov-19, but quaking in your boots about the coming wrath of God (Rev 19:20-21), which will entail more than just speculation of huge death tolls. There are apparent prices to paid for being deceived by loving dark over light. The supposed "saved" think they will be gathered up "first". The problem for them is that the tares, the lawless/wicked are the ones gathered first (Mt 13:30 & 49).

 

[rrobs]

Your missing the point. We are at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:39) & (Daniel 12:9-13) & (Matthew 7:23), where everything hidden will be revealed, and where the "stumbling blocks" (Peter)(Mt 16:23), and "those who commit lawlessness" and "practice lawlessness" (Paul) must be "gathered up and burned". As with Nineveh, God always gives fair warning to repent or suffer the consequences. The tares have been protected until the "harvest" (Mt 13:27-30), and then "first" the tares will be gathered up and burned. You should not be quaking in your boots about conov-19, but quaking in your boots about the coming wrath of God (Rev 19:20-21), which will entail more than just speculation of huge death tolls. There are apparent prices to paid for being deceived by loving dark over light. The supposed "saved" think they will be gathered up "first". The problem for them is that the tares, the lawless/wicked are the ones gathered first (Mt 13:30 & 49).

You may want to so a study on the Mystery that Paul talks about in his epistles.

The wrath you mentioned; wouldn't that be the one we are saved from?

1Thess 1:10,

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
​

In general, I might also suggest you bone up on the different administrations in the scriptures as well as the differences between Jew, Gentile, and the Church of the Body of Christ. The Church is the subject of the mystery God revealed to Paul.

Eph 3:3,

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
​

If you do study the mystery, administrations, and the Church, you will see that the Church will be gathered together in the clouds with Jesus before the events spoken of in Revelation (and Daniel, Ezekiel, et.al). That is talked about in 1 Thessallonians chapter 4 and a few other places. After that the wrath begins.

1 Cor 2:7-8,

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
​

Wow! Whatever this mystery is, had the devil know about it, he would not have had Jesus killed. Hopefully that will peak your interest. If it does, and you want a bit of help, let me know. I'd be glad to share what I know about it. It would open up the scriptures in a major way for you.

God bless

 

[2ndpillar]

You may want to so a study on the Mystery that Paul talks about in his epistles.

The wrath you mentioned; wouldn't that be the one we are saved from?

1Thess 1:10,

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
​

In general, I might also suggest you bone up on the different administrations in the scriptures as well as the differences between Jew, Gentile, and the Church of the Body of Christ. The Church is the subject of the mystery God revealed to Paul.

Eph 3:3,

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
​

If you do study the mystery, administrations, and the Church, you will see that the Church will be gathered together in the clouds with Jesus before the events spoken of in Revelation (and Daniel, Ezekiel, et.al). That is talked about in 1 Thessallonians chapter 4 and a few other places. After that the wrath begins.

1 Cor 2:7-8,

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
​

Wow! Whatever this mystery is, had the devil know about it, he would not have had Jesus killed. Hopefully that will peak your interest. If it does, and you want a bit of help, let me know. I'd be glad to share what I know about it. It would open up the scriptures in a major way for you.

God bless

You seem to over look the part were Paul is among the "false prophets" of Matthew 7:15, and his role is as the distributer of the "tare seed" (Mt 13), which results in the "tares" being "gathered" up "first" and thrown into the fire.(Mt 13:39-42 &49) The "first" gathered are the "wicked"/ lawless, those who actually follow Paul's gospel of the cross/grace. You are confusing the church of Babylon with the righteous, who survive the tribulation and stay around on earth. As for Daniel 12:10, at the "end of the age"/"end time", only those with "insight" will understand. The end is preceded by the gospel of the kingdom preached to the whole world (Mt 24). The kingdom of heaven starts with repentance, baptism, and good works (Matthew 3). You will find the kingdom of God described in the latter half of Ezekiel 37, with no mention of Paul's Gentile church.

 

[rrobs]

You seem to over look the part were Paul is among the "false prophets" of Matthew 7:15, and his role is as the distributer of the "tare seed" (Mt 13), which results in the "tares" being "gathered" up "first" and thrown into the fire.(Mt 13:39-42 &49) The "first" gathered are the "wicked"/ lawless, those who actually follow Paul's gospel of the cross/grace. You are confusing the church of Babylon with the righteous, who survive the tribulation and stay around on earth. As for Daniel 12:10, at the "end of the age"/"end time", only those with "insight" will understand. The end is preceded by the gospel of the kingdom preached to the whole world (Mt 24). The kingdom of heaven starts with repentance, baptism, and good works (Matthew 3). You will find the kingdom of God described in the latter half of Ezekiel 37, with no mention of Paul's Gentile church.

Have you done your daily animal sacrifices today?

Deut 27:26,

Cursed [be] he that confirmeth not [all] the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
​

If not, and you don't want to be cursed, you may want to rethink your ideas about Paul. He shows the way out of your dilemma.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Have you done your daily animal sacrifices today?

Deut 27:26,

Cursed [be] he that confirmeth not [all] the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
​

If not, and you don't want to be cursed, you may want to rethink your ideas about Paul. He shows the way out of your dilemma.

There is no temple in which to offer sacrifice. The prophet Hosea gives us instruction of what to do in such a case:
"The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (offerings)."
Hosea 14:2

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Galatians also has something to say about the the law.

Gal 3:24-25,

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.​

​

Remember that Galatians is written to Gentiles, for whom the Law was never given in the first place.