What is the difference between the new and old covenant?

[metis]

God want us to obey all ten of his rules that he wrote in stoine by his own hand.

As it says in Exodus, those Commandments only apply to the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews, whereas Jesus' Two Commandments apply to all of us. Paul even alludes to this, allowing Jews within "the Way" to continue to observe the 613 while all others must abide by Jesus' 2.

 

[MNoBody]

wasn't it said though that there is one simple thing people could do.... and that would fulfill all the law and the commandments as that was its living heart and breathing spirit
as Hillel an eminent rabbinical source with his aphorism where he sums up all of it in his famous one-liner
and all else is commentary to that......all else, not maybe another tedious rule or law or suggestion even

 

[rrobs]

What is the Christian perspective of the New Covenant? I know they refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34 whereas with regards to the house of Israel and house of Judah,I will put "My law within them", as their new covenant, but the nations/Gentiles are not mentioned, and they, nor Jacob apparently "Know the LORD", the final product of the "new covenant", and do not have to teach each other to "Know the LORD".

As for the original covenant, "My law", if one was to keep it, they would not suffer the plagues of Egypt, yet Jacob, did not keep it and have been under judgment ever since. Whereas the Christians and their proposed new covenant, the false gospel of grace by the false prophet Paul, has not sheltered them from the plagues of Egypt as well.

"My law" of the first covenant seemed to be pivoted around loving your neighbor by not stealing from him, defrauding him or killing him, and if he was in need to feed him. If you didn't take care of him, well, one faces judgment (Mt 25:32) & (Ezekiel 34). Yeshua's comment on the matter was that if one didn't do this, which was produce good fruit, one would be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10), even if one repented and was baptized.

On the other hand, the Christians apparently think that under their "new covenant", that they are "saved", and no good works, such as helping their neighbors are required. They think they will escape death and destruction, yet their track record has not been good. Have they like Eve, eaten the forbidden fruit and think they will not die, yet will in effect, like "every one" will die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30).

Rom 8:4,

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
​

The crux of the new birth (Christians) is that God gave us holy spirit. It was a gift first given on the Day of Pentecost, 50 days after Jesus rose from the dead. It's in Acts chapter 2.

God made it pretty clear that the law made nobody righteous. On a whole, people simply are incapable of following the law of Moses by adhering to a list of do's and don'ts. However, Romans 8:4 (and many other verses) say we can fulfill the law by walking according to that holy spirit God gave us. What does walking by the spirit entail?

Rom 8:5,

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
​

Walking by the spirit simple means to think, to mind the thoughts of God (contained in the scriptures) and not the world. The scriptures say God is love. The more we think about that the more we actually manifest that love. The scriptures further say that those who walk by love will cause no harm to their neighbor.

Rom 13:10,

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

The word "love" is the Greek word "agape." It is part of the holy spirit God gave all Christians. It, like the gift of holy spirit, was not available in the OT.

I suppose there are some Christians who feel they can do whatever they want and the truth is they can. God didn't make Christian robots. Christians still have free will. Nonetheless I think it fair to say the vast majority of Christians are ready and willing to help their neighbor.

 

[MNoBody]

spirit and idea may be synonymous terms....test that out and see how it works out in the ratiocination processing.

 

[MNoBody]

how much does it cost to be redeemed from a limiting or destructive idea??
and when it has been transformed (at the speed of thought) it is always cathartic, such a pile of internal burden gone....what release, like being born-again, into newness of life.....
so simple at heart, why do people go so easily astray from that?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What is the Christian perspective of the New Covenant? I know they refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34 whereas with regards to the house of Israel and house of Judah,I will put "My law within them", as their new covenant, but the nations/Gentiles are not mentioned, and they, nor Jacob apparently "Know the LORD", the final product of the "new covenant", and do not have to teach each other to "Know the LORD".

As for the original covenant, "My law", if one was to keep it, they would not suffer the plagues of Egypt, yet Jacob, did not keep it and have been under judgment ever since. Whereas the Christians and their proposed new covenant, the false gospel of grace by the false prophet Paul, has not sheltered them from the plagues of Egypt as well.

"My law" of the first covenant seemed to be pivoted around loving your neighbor by not stealing from him, defrauding him or killing him, and if he was in need to feed him. If you didn't take care of him, well, one faces judgment (Mt 25:32) & (Ezekiel 34). Yeshua's comment on the matter was that if one didn't do this, which was produce good fruit, one would be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10), even if one repented and was baptized.

On the other hand, the Christians apparently think that under their "new covenant", that they are "saved", and no good works, such as helping their neighbors are required. They think they will escape death and destruction, yet their track record has not been good. Have they like Eve, eaten the forbidden fruit and think they will not die, yet will in effect, like "every one" will die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30).

Why do you only want the Christian perspective? After all, the Torah was given to the Jews.

 

[1213]

What is the Christian perspective of the New Covenant? ...

By what I know, only difference is that the law is written “in the heart” as told in the Deuteronomy 30:6-9 and Jeremiah 31:31-34.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

As it says in Exodus, those Commandments only apply to the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews, whereas Jesus' Two Commandments apply to all of us. Paul even alludes to this, allowing Jews within "the Way" to continue to observe the 613 while all others must abide by Jesus' 2.

I think I am on an ignore list but I will ask your explanation of Mathew 19:16. Why would Jesus mention several (more than two) of the commandments if he does not want us to follow all ten?

 

[2ndpillar]

By what I know, only difference is that the law is written “in the heart” as told in the Deuteronomy 30:6-9 and Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Dt 30:6-9 was addressing Israel before the separation of Israel into the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The house of Israel has since been "scattered among the nations", and those nations will be "completely destroyed" (Jeremiah 30:11) when the house of Israel is gathered out (Ez 36:24 & 37) and joined to Judah, in which Judah has now been resettled to the land of Israel. The house of Israel remains the lost 10 tribes of Israel, and when judgment falls, they will be "justly" "chastened", and the "nations"/Gentiles where they were "scattered" shall be "completely destroyed". At this time neither the house of Israel, nor Judah apparently "know the LORD" which is the main element of the "new covenant" per Jeremiah 31:34. The "new heart" and "new spirit" (Ez 36:26) is in the time frame of Israel and Judah uniting into one nation, the kingdom of God, living on the land given to their fathers (Ez 37:22-25) and observing My statutes under My servant David. The false prophet Paul offers everlasting life, in which you surely shall not die (Gen 3:4) to the nations/Gentiles. Using Paul, who tells the Gentiles they have the law written on their heart, as the foundation on which one builds their house, is not a wise decision. (Mt 7:24-27).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are a variety of Covenants given by God. The Old testament contains at least 8 Covernants, other Holy Books also have Covenants. These Covenants apply to certain people, certain places and that God will never leave mankind alone and without guidance.

It is a massive topic, so where to begin?

Zion is now Mt Carmel, the past Covenants say that Mt Carmel will see the Glory of God, or the Glory of the Lord, which is the English translation of Baha'u'llah.

The Arc of the Covenant is now built on Mt Carmel and this is now Zion where the Law goes out from. It is the Mountain of the Lord, unto which all Nations shall flow up on.

God's Name has now become One.

Where would you like to start?

Regards Tony

It appears more has to happen to the world before people even consider it was a God given challenge for us all.

Peace be on one and all, stay happy, stay safe.

Regards Tony

 

[2ndpillar]

Rom 8:4,

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
​

The crux of the new birth (Christians) is that God gave us holy spirit. It was a gift first given on the Day of Pentecost, 50 days after Jesus rose from the dead. It's in Acts chapter 2.

God made it pretty clear that the law made nobody righteous. On a whole, people simply are incapable of following the law of Moses by adhering to a list of do's and don'ts. However, Romans 8:4 (and many other verses) say we can fulfill the law by walking according to that holy spirit God gave us. What does walking by the spirit entail?

Rom 8:5,

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
​

Walking by the spirit simple means to think, to mind the thoughts of God (contained in the scriptures) and not the world. The scriptures say God is love. The more we think about that the more we actually manifest that love. The scriptures further say that those who walk by love will cause no harm to their neighbor.

Rom 13:10,

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

The word "love" is the Greek word "agape." It is part of the holy spirit God gave all Christians. It, like the gift of holy spirit, was not available in the OT.

I suppose there are some Christians who feel they can do whatever they want and the truth is they can. God didn't make Christian robots. Christians still have free will. Nonetheless I think it fair to say the vast majority of Christians are ready and willing to help their neighbor.

Deuteronomy 30:11-12 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?"

I think Yeshua made clear that it takes more than just not doing harm to your neighbor (Mt 25:35). Did Abraham live before your Pentecost, and was he deemed "righteous" by acting on his faith and circumcising his offspring?

New American Standard Bible Gen 15:6
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.​

 

[Muffled]

I believe that OT verse has it right. In the old covenant one must be saved by obeying God, In the new Covenant one is saved by Jesus.

 

[metis]

I think I am on an ignore list but I will ask your explanation of Mathew 19:16. Why would Jesus mention several (more than two) of the commandments if he does not want us to follow all ten?

Because all the others are elaborations or applications of the Two.

Hillel the Elder, the Jewish sage who lived just before Jesus' time, concluded much the same when asked by a student what Torah was really about, and he said "I can answer this standing on one leg, namely don't do unto others that which you would not want done unto yourself; all the rest is commentary; now go study".

 

[Muffled]

The new Covenant is the resurrection. That is a new contract with God. A new life from the grave. Few people understand the new Covenant.

I suppose in a sense that is it. I believe the old covenant included a reward for obedience and the new covenant extends the reward for being saved to eternal life.

 

[Muffled]

From my perspective, as a Christian born again into the New Covernant, I see this is the way it unfolds.

The new Covernant is brought by God's chosen Messenger. It thus makes all things New, as former things have passed away. The new Covernant was brought in 1844 and sealed and signed in 1863.

There is no path to God in this day that is outside of acceptance of the new Covenant, as all past Covenants now find fulfilment in the Covernant given by the Bab (Gate) and confirmed, expanded upon and sealed by Baha'u'llah (Glory of God, the Father).

The Law now goes out from Zion.

Regards Tony

I believe if you were really a born again Christian you would know this isn't true.

 

[rrobs]

Deuteronomy 30:11-12 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?"

I think Yeshua made clear that it takes more than just not doing harm to your neighbor (Mt 25:35). Did Abraham live before your Pentecost, and was he deemed "righteous" by acting on his faith and circumcising his offspring?

New American Standard Bible Gen 15:6
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.​

My Pentecost? I never could have thought of such a thing. No, it's not my Pentecost, it is God's Pentecost, If you don't see anything having changed on that day, then maybe dig a little deeper, because Pentecost heralded a brand new era in God's plan for our redemption. It is the next best thing to Jesus' future second coming.

Perhaps the commandments themselves were not too difficult to grasp, but not a single person other than Jesus actually followed them. That's gotta mean something.

As far as Abraham is concerned, the scriptures say his righteousness lay in his believing, period. Circumcision was a sign of that believing, but it was the believing that made him righteous.

Rom 4:10-11,

10 How was it (righteousness) then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
​

Abraham's faith made him righteous before he was circumcised. Apparently circumcision is not required to be justified by God. But then again all Christians are circumcised. But it is a far better circumcision than that of Abraham.

​

Col 2:11,

In whom (Jesus) also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
​

No, my friend, it is not my Pentecost. Like I said, I, nor do I believe any other man, could have ever come up with the plan, the logos of John 1:1 that God so brilliantly formed. It is His Pentecost and He gave it for our enjoyment in this life until Jesus comes back again, not as a lamb led to the slaughter, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

 

[rrobs]

I believe that OT verse has it right. In the old covenant one must be saved by obeying God, In the new Covenant one is saved by Jesus.

I noticed your "Jesus is in me" phrase. It is a most excellent thought. However, with your permission I might suggest a slight refinement to that phrase. I don't mean to tell you what to do. Just a suggestion.

Col 1:27,

To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
​

This verse says it's Christ in you, not Jesus in you. What's the difference? If you look carefully, you will find that "Jesus" usually referred to the humiliated one who was tortured and died on the cross. The word "Christ" on the other hand refers to the risen Jesus with all his God given power and authority. Read Acts 2:31-36. Verse 36 says God made Jesus the Christ when he raised him from the dead. I think it fair to say that, for all the power Jesus had when he walked this earth, it nonetheless paled when compared to the power he now has after God raised him from among the dead. That is the power we have in us.

In fact, when he was here, he told us we would do greater works than he did (John 14:12). How could we do that unless we have even more power than he had when walking this earth? We have the power he obtained after his resurrection, after God made him the Christ.

So we could say, "Jesus in me" but it would be closer to the truth to say, as Colossians says, that it is Christ in you and that is our hope of future glory. Just use the words God uses. They are probably better than our own. Well, "not probably," they most definitely are better. Each word is purified 7 times

Ps 12:6,

The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
​

God certainly knows the difference between the words "Jesus" and Christ." He used Jesus when He meant Jesus, and "Christ" when he meant Christ. He used the word "Christ" in Colossians 1:27, not "Jesus." Wouldn't you, a Christian, think it expedient to say what God says? I trust you do.

God bless.

Take care

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Because all the others are elaborations or applications of the Two.

Hillel the Elder, the Jewish sage who lived just before Jesus' time, concluded much the same when asked by a student what Torah was really about, and he said "I can answer this standing on one leg, namely don't do unto others that which you would not want done unto yourself; all the rest is commentary; now go study".

I think this is basically true. If you love God, you will not worship other gods or have graven images, etc. And if you love your neighbor, you will not harm him or steal from him or bear false witness against him. So by Jesus condensing the ten commandments into two, he was not saying ignore the ten, he was actually saying that the ten are part of the two. And let's face it. 99% of people have no problem with 9 of the ten. Everyone agrees we should not kill or steal and we should honor or parents and worship only the one true God. The only one they have a problem with is that silly one about honoring some special day that God says He blessed and made holy. Because of that, they try to throw out all of the commandments and say we do not need to follow them. But they still say we should not kill or steal, etc.

 

[metis]

I think this is basically true. If you love God, you will not worship other gods or have graven images, etc. And if you love your neighbor, you will not harm him or steal from him or bear false witness against him. So by Jesus condensing the ten commandments into two, he was not saying ignore the ten, he was actually saying that the ten are part of the two. And let's face it. 99% of people have no problem with 9 of the ten. Everyone agrees we should not kill or steal and we should honor or parents and worship only the one true God. The only one they have a problem with is that silly one about honoring some special day that God says He blessed and made holy. Because of that, they try to throw out all of the commandments and say we do not need to follow them. But they still say we should not kill or steal, etc.

I think it is far less important which day of the week a congregation decides to use as their day of rest & prayer than that we do need to rest and pray at some time-- hopefully often.

BTW, most Catholic churches have mass several times a week, and many have mass every day of the week that also includes Saturday (Shabbat).

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think it is far less important which day of the week a congregation decides to use as their day of rest & prayer than that we do need to rest and pray at some time-- hopefully often.

BTW, most Catholic churches have mass several times a week, and many have mass every day of the week that also includes Saturday (Shabbat).

I have said several times that it does not matter what day of the week you go to church or that you can go several times a week. My problem is that many churches say that they honor the first day of the week because Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week. They say this is the new sabbath or Christian sabbath. But nothing changes the fact that God rested on the seventh day and wants people to honor that day. If you want to honor both the seventh and first day, I see no problem with that. But if you say we can forget the seventh day abd only honor the first day, then you are not doing what God wants. And I do not mean you personally, I use the YOU to mean everyone who fails to honor the seventh day.