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What Is The Difference Between The Eloheem ( Gods ) In Genesis1;1 And Yahweh

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TehuTi, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    Read Above
     
  2. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    In my opinion (i.e. according to my Church's doctrine), Elohim is the name by which God the Father is known. (Yes, I know it's technically a title, not a name.) His Son, who was known during this life as Jesus, was known during His pre-mortal existence as Jehovah (or Yahweh). I believe that Jehovah created this universe under the direction of Elohim and that the person spoken of as Jehovah in the Old Testament is the same individual as the Jesus Christ of the New Testament. This probably won't make a whole lot of sense to anyone who believes in the Trinity, by the way.
     
  3. astarath

    astarath New Member

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    Elohim you are correct is a translation of Gods in english. But the true justice of the word would be closer to deities.

    Yahweh is the hebrew for I am. This being how God is chosen to be addressed when he speaks face to face with Moses.

    At creation there was the trinity, Christ+God+Holy Spirit, and so the word Elohim is fitting due to the fact that there were three deities embodied to the single task. However, Yahweh is specific to the Lord alone. When God spoke to Moses the son and spirit were not there and so it is simply Yahweh.
     
  4. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    Lords ) In Genesis 4; 1 ? If You LQQk close at Genesis 2; 4 . they say the LORD God '' These are the generation of the heaven and the earth when they were created , in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heaven . but in the Hebrew you find Yahweh Eloheem , or a Lord of the gods , as opposed to Genesis 1;1 where Eloheem '' god , rulers , judges '' is there '' In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth , or Genesis4;1 where Yahweh '' Lord , Self -Existing , eternal '' is found ... I have gotten a man from the LORD '' .

    The beings called Eloheem is plural and the being called YHWH Is Singular .
    What Is The Differnce Between YHWH , Yahweh , Yehovah , Yahuwa and Jehovah ? A poor attempt of attaching lost vowels to acquire the true pronunciation . Another degree of confusion confusing the public . So in fact there is no difference other than the way individual group choose to pretend that they know the real pronunciation , which they don't In fact , the word YHWH ( Lord ) is not in the beginning of the bible . Eloheem for gods is in the beginning of the bible ( Genesis 1;1 ) .

    So In Fact The Bible Begins With More Than One God ?Yes . it uses Eloheem a plural , not Eloh the singular for the same word . so it actually reads '' in the beginning gods created the heavens and the earth '' not '' god created the heaven and the earth '' . Which means this can't be the first book of the bible . The very fact that it uses Eloheem , which is plural in Genesis 1;1 . means there is a single form of Eloheem , and because there is a single form of Eloheem , you couldn't start at more than one god without starting with one god . in simple terms . you can not have a plural first without a dual , andyou can not have a dual without asinggle being first . so with that in mind Genesis could not be '' the beginning of creation '' if everything began with one incident .

    Could This Be Speaking Of God And His Trinity Or Angelic Beings As Found In
    1John 5;7 ? No . because that quote which in actuality was an addition and not from the original reads ; '' For there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , theword , and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one . This quote does not declare them god . Jesus states in Ephesians 4;6 '' One God and Father of all . who is above all . and through all , and in you all '' .

    So as you can see Angels and Jesus are not above the 1 God concept . What is interesting is when you look in the Greek for God , you get Thehos , which is equivalent to the Eloheem , The plural in Genesis 1;1 and Thehos is an infinite '' godly '' and the word angel is Angelos meaning '' a messenger ''. Angels Are Not Gods ? Absolutely not according to the religious concept because they bring messages from god thereforethey can't be god ; thus eliminating 1 part of the trinity which is the holy ghost from being a god Hebrew 2;9 ,

    see from this quote . Jesus was made lower than angels for whatever reason . But the most high god or god ( Eloheem ) can never become lower than angels. God can't become lower than anything and still be god the most high Elyon El Genesis 14;18 . As they would have you believe , the holy ghost isnow eliminated because angels are not gods . They say 1 god the father . 2 god the son . 3 god the holy ghost . And the holy ghost according to the Bible Luke 3 ; 22 . clearly states that the holy dove descended in a bodily shapeas a dove . That isbacked up by John 1;32 , but Luke makesit . clear that this dove was the holy ghost coming in bodily form . That is physically appear , so the holy ghost can personify in physical form .

    Matthew 1;18 clearly states that Mary referred to as '' She '' in the quotewas found with child , meaning Jesus , of the holy ghost , Matthew 1;20 States this angel of the lord is speaking to Joseph and confirm that his, as the Bible puts it '' wife '' and the Greek word is goo-nay '' wife or woman '' would conceive . that is ghen -nag-o nay '' beget , give birth ,bring forth '' , from inside her as the quoteputs it , of again ,the holy ghost . And Matthew 12;31 declares that you will never be forgiver if you blaspheme , and the word is blas - fay - me - ah '' speak evil against '' the holy ghost ''

    So we have a story here unfolding on the true significance of the third part of the Christian trinity ,namely god the holy ghost ,distinguished from god the son , and god the father , but its god the holyghost who has the ability to come into the physical form ;be it a bird as the dove or a man as in Matthew 12;32 , which separates the son of man , a name for Jesus , from the holy ghost . And even Matthew 3;11 , tells you that Jesus would baptize with the holy ghost ,not that he is the holy ghost , again a clear separation between god the son , and godthe holy ghost .

    Now look at Matthew 28;19 '' go ye therefore and teach all nation baptizing then in the name of the father ( patayr ) and the son ( huios ) andthe holy
    ( hagios ) ghost ( pneuma ) ;... ( These Three Being Are Being Separated Here Again , Yet You Are Taught To Believe That They Are One .

    Is That What The Bible Teaches Or Is That What The Preacher Preaches ? That quote Matthew 28;19 said , '' go ye therefore and teach , that means that ministers have a two-fold job . They must teach the congregation ,not just preach , for the word preach Kay -roo-os is no '' to proclaim , to publish '' as appose to the word teach math-ayt-yoo-o '' to instruct '' What happens is . when you analyze the scriptures and their languages , you don't find yourself preaching , you find yourself instructing , explaining and elaborating . Making things clear for people . Set-ing the record straight . Because as we read this as students . as appopsed to as a congregation being peached to , we are getting a clearer of the message . The holy ghost comes in physical form . This deity personifying or coming in human form is an Egiptian concept

    frowed upon by the mis-informed , as Matthew 28;19 separated god the father . Eloheem , god the son . Jehovah , and god the holy ghost , Gabriel , an angel ( Daniel 9;21 ) . We can see clear three distinct characters . Why Is Jesus The Son , Being Called Jehovah ? The answer is quite simple . The equivalent of Jehovah which means lord in the Old Testament Genesis4;26 , and becomes lord in Matthew 4;10 , where Jesus himself declares '' ... thou shalt worship the lord thy god .... And theword for lord there is '' Kurios '' . Note that in this quote lord and god isbeing used together , and god there is '' thehos '' , and if the New Testament is a new testament of the old testament by the same god ,

    we have to go go back to the old testament to findout theequivalent of the'' lord god '' as found in the New Testament . And Genesis Chater 2 Verse 4 , clearly states in part '' in the day that the lord god made earth and the heavens '' Lord here is Jehovah and God here is Eloheem . Back To The Question .
    MATTHEW 4;10 -- in this verse , we see the two words lord god , and their Greek equivalent for the word lord ( kurios ) and for the word god you get Thehos .
    Now look at its parent scripture you get GENESIS 2;4 , and for the word lord you get Yahweh , and for the word god you get Eloheem . So that means Yahweh equals Kurios and Eloheem equals Thehos
     
  5. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Well-Known Member

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    This has been debated before but even though Elohim is a plural noun it describes a singular God with a plural nature not a group of gods.
     
  6. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    The Elohim are very ancient race of high ascended beings who do work for the universe and thus for God. They know more about the universe's inner workings than any other species or being (other than Christ) so it should not be surprising that they are often looked upon as gods by primitive beings.

    The Elohim are genetic engineers. All life in the universe comes from their experiments. Once a new life experiment reaches a degree of self consciousness (first moral decision) then the Elohim are not allowed to help anymore and must leave that planet.

    Free will is God's rule.
     
  7. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    Ok if you say so
     
  8. Willamena

    Willamena Just be there, doing that

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    The story with Elohim comes from the mythology of the northern kingdom of Israel. The name 'Elohim' derives from a group of books called the Elohim or 'E' texts that date to the 8th Century B.C. 'Elohim' is the plural form of 'El' and is translated as 'god'. The name 'Yahweh' (translated as 'the Lord') comes from another group of books called the Yahwist or 'J' texts that belong to the mythology of the southern kingdom of Judah, and date to the 9th Century B.C.

    Genesis 1 is of the 'E' texts, and Genesis 2 and 3 are of the 'J' texts. Two kingdoms, two different mythologies that were brought together in the 7th Century B.C. by and unknown editor, and then re-worked in the 5th and 4th Centuries B.C. into what is known as the 'P' or Priestly texts.
     
  9. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Well-Known Member

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    Information often found in the fiction section of the library.
     
  10. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance does not become you. This comes from standard Hebrew.
     
  11. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    When Ever You See '' We '' Or '' Us '' In The Scripture It Is Actually Referring To God As '' Eloheem . '' Thus The '' God '' Of The Bible Is A Part Of A Group Of Gods .
    Genesis 1; 26 <> RighTranslation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    And The Eloheem / Anunnaqi Said Amongst Themselves '' Now Let's Breed By Cloning People , Lulu Amelu A Homo - Sapien Of This Planet Earth Adamites Looking Just Like Ourselves , Anunnaqi , And Acting Like Ourdelves And We Will Give The Rulership Over The Fish Of The Sea , And Birds Of The Skies , And Over All Of The Non Speaking Mammals , And All Of The Creeping Thing That Greep Upon The Planet Earth ''

    Genesis 1 ; 26
    And God Said , Let Us Make Man In Our Image , After Our Likeness And Let Them Have Dominion Over The Fish Of The Sea And Over The Fowl Of The Air , And Over The Cattle . And Over All The Earth , And Over Every Creeping Thing That Creepeth Upon The Earth .
    Eloheem = Plural For God's Meaning More The One Gen 6 ; 2 ; 6; 4 ; Job 1 ; 6 ; 2 ; 1 ; Psalm 82 ; 1 ; 82 ; 6 ; John 10 ; 34 - 35 ,
    Eloheem Are The Angels Of El Or Messengers Of El . They Are A Host Of Beings That Do The Work Of El . Eloheem Are Found In The Beginning Of The Torah Genesis Chapter 1 And The Word Is Mistranslated As GOD ( Genesis 1 ; 1 ) .


    When It Was Translated Into English To Give The Impression That Its A Single Form , When It Is Really Plural . It's Plural Because Of The Last Two Letters '' Im '' Or '' Yod Mem '' In Aramic ( Hebrew ) . When This Is Added To The End Of A Hebrew Word , It Denotes Plurality . The Greek Theh - Os , In The New Testament Is Equivalent To The Word Eloheem . The Name '' Eloheem '' Is Used For Both Agreeable And Disagreeable Beings . If You Write Down The Word '' Eloheem '' You Will Find This Word Is Grammatically The Plural Form Of A Noun . The Lettrs '' Yod Mem , In The Hebrew Language Are Found At The End Of Ancient Syretic Words Which Have Been Grafted Into The Arabic Language .


    Hebrew Plurals In The Masculine , End In '' Im '' Yod Mem '' . To Add A ' S '' To This When We Introduce Such Words Into English , Is Improper . Therefore , The Word Should Be Written '' Cherubim ''' Not '' Cherubims '' . This Is To Show You That If Eloheem Can Be Defined As A Plural ( Meaning Gods And Goddesses ) ; How Can This Be Referring To El Eloh ? Within The Word Eloheem Is The Plural '' Im '' Which Mean '' They '' These Beings '' . So The Make It Clear To Everyone That The Ancient Hebrew Word Eloheem With The Last Two Letters Added Becomes Merely A Derivative Of Eloh , Which Is A Derivative From El , And If It Is A Derivative , Meaning Derived From . It Means Taken From The Original , Not The Original .

    Then It Can't Be The One Deity (God ) Because The One Deity Has To Be The Root Of All The Derivative , Not A Part Of The Root . Now El Can Be Part Of The Eloheem Which Is The Plural Of El ( The AngelicBeings ) Because Some Of Him Is In The Angels . He Of Course Is A Part Of The Eloheem ; Which Means They Are Also Refered To As The '' We '' Or '' Us '' .
    Deuteronomy 5 ; 7 < Right Traslation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    You Are To Hold Loyalty To No Other Eloheem
    Deuteronomy 5 ; 7 < King Jame 1611 A.D. >
    Thou Shalt Have None Other Gods Before Me ''
    The Purpose Of Explanning This Word Is So That You Can Better OverStand That The Word '' Eloheem '' Could Not Be Referring To One Entity , As These Translators Believe That At Times El Eloh And His AngelicBeings Are Referred To In The The Scriptures , Ask Them To Explain Why It Is Found In The Torah ?
     
  12. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    Of Course They Can't , Because They Aren't Versed In The Original Aramic ( Hebrew ) Language , So I'll Explain To You Why . First Lets Take The Word Allahumma
    Koran 3 ; 26 < Arabic >
    Say ; '' O Allahumma ( The Eloheem / Anunnaqi ) . You Are The Maalik ''<> Ruler '' Of Al Mulki '<> The Rulership ' You Give Al Mulks The Rulership To Whomere You Please , And You Remove Al Mulka <> The Rulership ' From Whomever You Please ; And You ( Forify ) Tu'izzu <> Make Mighty ' Who You Please , And You Tudhillu <> Humble '' Whomever You Please , By ( The Aid Of ) Yadika <> ' Your Hands , Al Khayr <. Is That Which Is Good ' Surely You Have The Qadiyr <> Power Over All Things .


    Which Is Really From The Hebrew Word Eloheem In Genesis 1 ; 26 And Found In The Torah 430 Times . The Following Are The Three Word Used For The Creator In The Torah .
    1 . El < Aramic / Hebrew >
    2 . Elowah '' '' ''
    3 , Eloheem '' ''' '' ''
    And These Number Match Up Exactly To How Many Time They Show Up In The Torah . The Most Controversial Of The Three Words Is The Word Eloheem Or Allahumma . However , Before I Discuss The Word Eloheem Or Allahuma With You , I Would Like To Give You An Explanation Of The Word El And The Word Elowah .

    The Name Of Allah Is The Same In Hebrew As It Is In Arabic ; As You Will See From The Following Explanation ;
    1. El ( AL ) . The Word . If Found Within The Quote Isaiah 12; 2 Is In Reference To The Creator . It Has Been Mistranslated By English Translators As '' God ''
    Isaiah 12 ; 2 < Right Translation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    Here , El Is My Salvation ; I Will Trust , And Not Be Afraid ; For The Ya Yahuwa Is My Strength And My Song Of Praise , He Also Becomes My Slavation .
    Isaiah 12 ; 2 King James 1611 A.D.
    '' Behold , God Is My Salvation ; I Will Trust , And Not Be Afraid ; For The Lord Jehovah Is My Strength And My Song ; He Also Is Become My Salvation . ''
     
  13. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    The Word El Or Al Is An Old Demonstrative Pronoun Slightly Pointing Out A Thing . The Following Definitions Have Been Taken From '' The Concise Staement Of The Principle Of Hebrew Grammar '' Published By Edward C . Mitchell .
    Hebrew ; El Arabic ; Al
    Used In The Sense Of The This Word Mean '' The '' It Is A
    Creator Being The Almighty Definite Article Pointing Out A
    Creator , It Literally Means Certain Thing , The Name Of Allah
    Strong , Power , Mighty One Is Made Up Of This Definite Article AL
    Or '' The '' And The Pronun Lahu Or ''
    For Him ''
    2 . Elowah ; Is Mentioned In Daniel 11 ; 38 ,
    Daniel 11 ; 38 < Right Translation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    But In His Estate Will He Honour The Eloh Of Forces ; And A Eloh Whom His Father Knew Not Will He Honour With Gold , And Silver And With Precious Stones , And Pleasant Things .

    Daniel 11 ; 38 < King James 1611 A.D. >
    But In His Estate Shall He Honor The God Of Forces ; And A God Whom His Father Knew Not Shall He Honor With Gold And Silver , And With Precious Stones , And Pleasant Things . ''
    The Word Elowah Is Referring To Creator In The Preceding Quotes And Is Is Mistranslated As God , Elowah Is A Derivative Of The Word El . It Comes From The Ancient Form Of The Word Alahhu Or Elahh . Has Becaome Obsolete In The Hebrew Language , And It Corresponds With The Arabic Word Alaha or Ilaahi .
    Alahhu Or Elahh Alaha
    To Worship And To Adore To Worship , Swear , Adore ; From
    To Swear , From This Comes Thus You Get The Name Of The
    Eloah , Which Corresponds Creator Al Khaaliq .
    Of The Creator .
     
  14. TehuTi

    TehuTi New Member

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    Elahha Or Alahhu In Aramic For Alaha , Closely Resembles The Arabic Word Alaha . This Is Further Proof That Hebrew , Aramic And Arabic Are The Same Language . From The Ancient Chaldean Language , Both El . And Elowah Are In The Singular Tense .
    These Are The Same Words ! Just Look Close And You Will See They Are The Same . < Look At The Diagram Below >
    Aramic Arabic
    Eloahum ( Eloheem ) Allahumma
    Eloheem Is The Plural Of The Word Allahuma Is The Plural For The
    Alahhu , A Definition Given From Name Allah . The Plural
    A Hebrew Dictionary Entitled A Concise Hum Is A Representation
    Statement Of The Principle Of Hebrew Of The Creator And His Angelic
    Grammar '' By Edward G . Mitchell States Bening Also '' Allah And All His
    Eloahim Is A Plural Tense Of The Word Attributes '' The Attributes Called
    Goddesses . ( Psalms 71;17 ; 72 ; 1 ) The Koran 3 ;26 , 10 ; 10 , 39 , 46
    What They Are Not Telling You Is That This Word Eloahim Is Not In Quraish Or Modern Arabic Terms Or Even In The Terms Of The Modern Classical Arabic Used In The Koran . But It Is Another One Of Those Word That Has Been Grafted From .
    The Hebrew Term Eloahim . Which Came From The Syretic Term Brought From The Phoenicians , And The Babylonians. Originally From Cuneiform . It Is A Fact That Allahumma ( Or Eloahim ) Is Grammatically A Plural Word . It Is Made From Two Words , Allah And Hum Which Is The Arabic Suffix For '' Them '' Just Like The Jews And The Muslims , Christian Etc , Find The Word '' We '' Used In The Scriptures ( The Torah And The Koran Etc . ) ( And Still Say It Is A Singular Word )
    Now Ask Them How Can '' We '' Be < Singular > ? If God Would Have Wanted It To Be < Singular > He Would Have Said '' I '
     
  15. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    If you do not wish to believe it, then don't believe it. It changes nothing.
     
  16. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    18,523
    About the same as the difference between Gott and Dieu.
     
  17. Xiong921

    Xiong921 New Member

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    one thing you have to understand is that Eloheem is both a singular and plural noun, talking about the trinity, three gods in one person, in genesis 1:26 it states "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." now that might sound confusing but to sum it all up, god doesn't create god, god creates man, but god can only beget god, just as man can only beget man. in john 3:16 it states "for god so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not parish, but have everlasting life" if you don't understand what beget is, it is to generate an offspring and to cause and preduce as an effect. now yahweh is stating god in the flesh, god as a human being. in luke 1:34-35, it states "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. yahweh is kind of a confusing word, because it states god came in the flesh, but not through the way of man, for if jesus did something like that, then he too would be born into sin, and would not be suitable to be the sacrifice for our sins, so he was born into the world through the holy spirit.

    hope this helps
     
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