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What is 'the book of James', really? Seems like a argument against salvation through faith...

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Desert Snake, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    The book of James, I suggest reading it with the context of another language source, Bible, contradicts the idea of salvation through belief, directly.
    Things to note, when carefully reading the "book of James".
    • premise against salvation through belief, alone
    •premise to "follow the law".
    • criticism of salvation through belief
    this book, whoever wrote it, seems like nothing more than a argument against Christian [other textual, belief, and teachings.
    The way it reads in English, is interpretive, or seems interpretive, to justify the 'law of liberty', however, what does that mean. That clearly doesn't mean textually, the 'law of Faith'.
    James 2:5 -note James 2:6, creating an argument
    James 2:14
    James 2:16 -saying the gospel of faith doesn't do anything
    James 2:17
    James 2:18
    James 2:19-note contrast, argument, against the Law of Faith, James 2:18
    James 2:20-works to obtain salvation

    Note contradiction and contrast
    Romans 3:27
    Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    [KJV]
    Romans 10:3
    Romans 10:4
     
    #1 Desert Snake, Sep 13, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  2. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Romans 4:2
    For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    [KJV]
    This is clearly saying that Abraham was not justified by works.

    note oppositional, argument, in the book of James

    James 2:21
    Was not Abraham our father, justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    [KJV]
    James 2:22
    Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    [KJV]
    James 2:24
    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    [KJV]
    This is clearly saying the opposite, a contrasting argument.
     
    #2 Desert Snake, Sep 13, 2018
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  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    There's nothing wrong with a little variety in interpretation if we're all on the same side.
     
  4. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps Christianity deviated from what it's base was.
     
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  5. Agent

    Agent Member

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    [12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2
     
  6. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Hello. James has always been my favorite part of the NT outside of the Gospels because of its social message. It has always struck me as very Jewish, which to me means closest to the teachings of Jesus. That Luther wanted to demote it to essentially the status of apocrypha confirms this and makes me like it even more :p
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Windmills of your mind

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    Works means acts for, of, and through god justified by christ. In that the prophets, jesus, and apostles did not just have faith but In their faith they did works. Righteous works onto salvation. If Abraham did not Obey god he would be dead. If jesus did not Obey god, he cannot save.

    If believers do not help him carry his cross, by what works are you justified when they are of man? (Man: let him do it on his own.) Believer: (In my faith obey god, off his so help, and humble myself to risk myself the same consequence as jesus apostle)

    So you have to understand

    1. Righteous works are deeds justified by christ

    2. Unrighteous works are justified by man

    3. Through example and life (and jesus passion) obeying god has always been something you Do not just something you believe.

    So faith alone means belief and obedience because if that faith one justified by christ; they cannot be separated.

    As long as man's works are justified by christ he will no longer be judged by his deeds (by nature judgement means whether one benefits or consequences) but by his faith. His faith is not seperates from righteous works

    So in that context they go together.

    Jews do not just have faith. The apostles didn't just have faith. There was always obedience no as a result of faith but in faith justice by christ.
     
    #7 Unveiled Artist, Sep 13, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Windmills of your mind

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    I can get verses later. The bible has to be read in context and as a unit.

    Also finding language translations doesnt make sense. That's like calling all english translators liers in their ability to translate scripture.

    No context or culture can be fully understood by someone who has not grown in and/or Is native to that culture.

    As a result, knowing greek Gand hebrew is find. Understanding it through cultural traditions is different no matter how read someone is.

    Edit.

    Oh. And James says it more directly. It's all in scripture. It is the bible. The problem, bluntly, if you think for yourselves you find the context of the differences between works and how one is in faith justified by christ and the other by man.
     
    #8 Unveiled Artist, Sep 13, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  9. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    the Book of James does not contradict the gospel message of salvation through faith alone, it is a compliment to the gospel and the reality of faith in a person's life. One who is saved by faith in the sufficiency of Christ's finished work through the cross and resurrection demonstrates a living faith through good works....For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10


    Below is a link with a helpful comparison chart...

    Paul and James did not contradict each other; but rather they complemented each other. What both men wrote was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16) and true. Paul’s focus was on the unsaved man and how he might get right with God. James’ focus was on the saved person and how he might show his faith and demonstrate the reality of his faith.
    Justification by Faith - Did James Contradict Paul
     
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  10. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    James should read taken as a new testament book of proverbs. It has a lot about controlling one's tongue. It's also makes a good point about Faith and Works. It is our faith in God that saves, but we show that we are saved by the works we perform. Because if you have true faith the works come naturally. But if you stopped doing the work of your faith can you really say that your faith is alive?
     
  11. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    James is about living out your faith but has nothing to do with eternal salvation.
     
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