What is the "Big Lie"? What is the consequence of believing in it?

[2ndpillar]

A righteous individual doesn't threaten others with death for eating a fruit. Period.

Maybe a "warning" would be a better descriptive term. One warns a child not to go down the steep steps, lest they should fall. If the child goes down the steps anyway, the child would suffer the physical consequences.

 

[Koldo]

Maybe a "warning" would be a better descriptive term. One warns a child not to go down the steep steps, lest they should fall. If the child goes down the steps anyway, the child would suffer the physical consequences.

Your analogy would only be equivalent if one decided to push the children down the stars if they dared to walk down the stairs.

Therefore, 'threaten' feels more pertinent.

 

[2ndpillar]

Your analogy would only be equivalent if one decided to push the children down the stars if they dared to walk down the stairs.

Therefore, 'threaten' feels more pertinent.

You are getting your story wrong. It was the "serpent" who did the pushing. Of course the end was known from the beginning, but that was the basis of the world we live in. You can choose your own evil versus good, or you can let the creator give you a cheat sheet.

 

[Koldo]

You are getting your story wrong. It was the "serpent" who did the pushing. Of course the end was known from the beginning, but that was the basis of the world we live in. You can choose your own evil versus good, or you can let the creator give you a cheat sheet.

Was it the snake that expelled Adam and Eve from the garden ? I didn't get the memo.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Ok, so what is the powerful delusion God sends so that they believe the lie?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

This is because the Word of God must come true because God is not a liar.

But if the curse can be broken by eating from the other tree, then God CAN lie. Ensuring they don't use the one other magic tree You put up doesn't make You "right", only "a sore loser".

So Elijah clearly went up in a whirlwind. (2 Kings 2:11) As it says of Enoch he was not for "God took him". (So it was the power of God)

Clearly the ancient world needed more tornado shelters.

I thought God was being sarcastic?

In many ancient cultures, certain foods or drinks or spells or something could confer divine powers/status. Both the ancient Greeks and Chinese had secret gardens with divine fruit.

Gods could be "promoted" from mortals. They could be born, live, die, etc. As the bible progresses, God loses more and more of the original concepts of divinity in favor of some Hellenized overthinking oneupmanship.

The serpent did lie and say the exact opposite of God

And then God verifies the real reason as stated by the serpent. God was being dishonest about why they shouldn't eat it, like telling your child that if he frowns his face will be stuck that way forever.

I think the scriptures show that the primary death God was referring to was spiritual death, the separation from an innocent, loving, trusting relationship they had with God

Where is this relationship described? God gives Adam a rule or two and disappears from the story until it's time to whine about Adam and Eve disobeying Him.

2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

And even that's wrong, because God never says you can't touch it, but then again, the rule predated Eve's creation.

God can't go back on His promise if He said they would die then they had to die.

If your kids color on the walls and you warned them you'd kill them ... you know, never mind, my news feeds on my FB wall show me daily that many parents would gladly kill their children over something like eating a cupcake.

Satan told Eve she would not die--- she died.

Satan's not in that story.

Those that reject the teachers Jesus appoints are rejecting Jesus and God as well.

LOL, according to the teachers. Jesus rejected Jewish teachers, did he not? So he was rejecting God?

One thing that never ceases to make me laugh is how in Christianity what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

 

[idav]

a thousand years is as a day to God--is this what God was referring to? 2Peter 3:8)--- They died spiritually on that day.

Nice spin.

 

[idav]

Incorrect. Here is proof.

Genesis 2:9

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God creates Eden then specifically plants 2 trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge.

Genesis 2:16

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

So far so good. God made Eden, plants 2 trees. 1 tree of knowledge which leads to death, 1 tree of life that's provides immortality, hence the name. Free to chose of either.

Genesis 3:22

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

That being said if they only ate of the tree of life, and avoided the temptation of the tree of knowledge, they would have lived forever.

Can’t disagree with much there but there lies a question if Adam and Eve knew all that. From eves words they did not, we only know it cause we read the whole story. How could they really know anything when they didn’t know good from evil? Thus they were naive children.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Nice spin.

Well if it didn't actually happen then it wasn't meant to be literal. It had to have been a metaphor because if it weren't then the Bible would be wrong!

So sad, isn't it, the amount of mental gymnastics they get themselves into?

 

[Enoch07]

Can’t disagree with much there but there lies a question if Adam and Eve knew all that. From eves words they did not, we only know it cause we read the whole story. How could they really know anything when they didn’t know good from evil? Thus they were naive children.

Ignorantia juris non excusat

They were informed of the law (rule).

 

[2ndpillar]

Was it the snake that expelled Adam and Eve from the garden ? I didn't get the memo.

I am thinking that the "serpent" was cursed, and Adam and Eve had to leave lest they eat the fruit of the tree of life and live forever. To eat from the tree of life, one must first repent, and produce fruit in keeping with that repentance. I think the "memo" is located somewhere in the first part of Genesis.

 

[2ndpillar]

LOL, according to the teachers. Jesus rejected Jewish teachers, did he not? So he was rejecting God?

One thing that never ceases to make me laugh is how in Christianity what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

According to Genesis 3:16, the gander, the male goose, rules the female goose..

 

[JoshuaTree]

According to Genesis 3:16, the goose rules the gander.

I think that's backwards unless you talking about the first book of book of Adam and Eve.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What is the big lie? God told Adam and Eve if they ate the forbidden fruit they would die. Satan told them they would not die. They listened to Satan's lie and ate the fruit. Death entered the world.

 

[JoshuaTree]

What is the big lie? God told Adam and Eve if they ate the forbidden fruit they would die. Satan told them they would not die. They listened to Satan's lie and ate the fruit. Death entered the world.

Unrelated to 2 Thess 2 delusion and lie or not?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

According to Genesis 3:16, the goose rules the gander.

We only let him think so.

 

[2ndpillar]

I think that's backwards unless you talking about the first book of book of Adam and Eve.

No, you are correct. I was answering a question which had the sexes reversed, and I didn't know the difference between a male and female goose.

 

[Muffled]

What is the “big lie”?

I am not talking about Hitler’s generic “big Lie”, which was to tell a big enough lie enough times, and people will believe you. I am referring to the original “big Lie” of the serpent (Genesis 3:4). The Lie was that if you broke God’s commandment, you “surely shall not die”. Of course everyone but Elijah, and Enoch, who did not break any commandments, all died. Now the story is that if you believe what the son of hell, Paul, preached, then you “surely shall not die”, but be changed in a “twinkling of an eye” and wind up singing on a cloud. Of course that is nonsense, but the lie is so big, and told so many times, it has “many” followers, and they are all headed to “destruction” (Matthew 7:13). “Everyone shall die for his own iniquities” (Jeremiah 31:30), there are no exceptions. You can believe any lie you want, but all will be judged according to their own deeds (Revelation 20:13). The only caveat is that as you judge others, so shall you be judged.

I believe Paul is not the son of Hel and certainly is a child of God.

I believe that is what Jesus is saying when he says He preparing a place for us in John 14 and yet that place has not yet arrived so the fulfillment of eternal life has not yet arrived either.

I believe almost everyone likes to sing but I believe our destination is the New Jerusalem not a cloud.

I believe of course what you say is nonsense but then anyone can say that about anyone without proving it.

I believe you have contradicted yourself.

I don't believe that. I believe you can miss out on eternal life by believing the wrong things.

The big lie is that being a good person will get a person into the Kingdom of God and give them eternal life. I believe only accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will do that.

 

[Muffled]

The serpent didn’t lie, God did. As the story goes humans, Adam and Eve, did not die eating the fruit. They got cursed to eventually die by getting kicked out of Gods good graces.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

If you follow the New Testament it’s in that theology as well since Jesus supposedly died while being sinless.

I don't believe it is a lie if it comes true eventually and obviously the serpent lied because it did come true eventually.

I believe there is no supposedly about it. Jesus did die, God in Jesus did not die.

 

[2ndpillar]

The big lie is that being a good person will get a person into the Kingdom of God and give them eternal life. I believe only accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will do that.

I believe Paul is not the son of Hel and certainly is a child of God.

I believe that is what Jesus is saying when he says He preparing a place for us in John 14 and yet that place has not yet arrived so the fulfillment of eternal life has not yet arrived either.

I believe almost everyone likes to sing but I believe our destination is the New Jerusalem not a cloud.

I believe of course what you say is nonsense but then anyone can say that about anyone without proving it.

I believe you have contradicted yourself.

I don't believe that. I believe you can miss out on eternal life by believing the wrong things.

The big lie is that being a good person will get a person into the Kingdom of God and give them eternal life. I believe only accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will do that.

Well, there you go, perpetuating the "big lie", the "covenant with death” whereas the “overwhelming scourge”will pass you by, but in fact it will apparently choose you to make its bed with. (Isaiah 28:18-19). “Everyone will die for their own iniquity” including “muffled” (Jeremiah 31:30), despite calling out,“Lord , Lord”(Romans 10:13), and believing every word that comes out of Paul’s mouth. Your “pact with Sheol shall not stand” (Isaiah 28:18). The calling on the “LORD” (Joel 2:32) & (Romans 10:13), is with respect to the LORD thy God, which is not the “son of man” who is simply “Lord”. Those who “survive” the “awesome day of the LORD” (Joel 2:31) is with respect to those “on Mount Zion”, and “in Jerusalem”.

If one does not “seek” ”His kingdom” and “His righteous” now (Matthew 6:33), tomorrow might just be too late to do so. “Seek the LORD while he may be found”. As for the “kingdom of God”, with respect to the millennium, which is different than the kingdom of heaven, which is “at hand” (Matthew 4:17), those with the “mark of the beast” will remain in their graves (Revelation 20:4) for a millennium.

Those who “dwell on the earth” will be deceived by the “beast with two horns like a lamb” and take on the mark of the beast, and that because they were not written in the “book of life” from the “foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8). Paul’s “broad” “way” to “destruction” . The false gospel of the cross, is just a means to get the “many” onto that path of “destruction”. The “kingdom of heaven” is about “justice” and “righteousness”(Isaiah 28:18), and is not based on the unmerited favor of God (Zechariah 11:10). You will not escape death, which is the message of the "serpent" and Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:17). There will be no cloud sitters. The righteous, the dead raised from the grave, will rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4) & (Ezekiel 37:15-27).

As for Paul being the son of God, I direct you to Romans 7:25, whereas he sins, and thanks God for the pleasure. According to 1 John 3:8, the one who practices sin is of the devil.