What is the "Big Lie"? What is the consequence of believing in it?

[Koldo]

Sticking to your word no matter what is a lack of self control? Are you sure? That's the opposite of self control.

If it can't be helped, if you are completely bound to what you have said in the past, if you are a slave to whatever you have previously determined, absolutely, this is a perfect example to show what lack of self-control is.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Since the Bible says God hands people over to lies, maybe he'd like to clarify himself what the 'big lie' is:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We also have this nice consideration from the Hebrew Bible we can add:

1 Kings 22:22 “And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'"

 

[osgart]

The big lie has to be false pride arrogance.
And living a life of hatred.

 

[74x12]

If it can't be helped, if you are completely bound to what you have said in the past, if you are a slave to whatever you have previously determined, absolutely, this is a perfect example to show what lack of self-control is.

God is truth and so it would be self-contradictory. It's a good thing for us; He does not change. God is righteous so He can't change. He did become a Slave to His own Law in Jesus the Son of man. If God did change His word then He would lose respect from the angels or humans. They would know He doesn't mean what He says.

 

[74x12]

Since the Bible says God hands people over to lies, maybe he'd like to clarify himself what the 'big lie' is:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We also have this nice consideration from the Hebrew Bible we can add:

1 Kings 22:22 “And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'"

Every time God does this though it's in the form of a final judgment. He doesn't just hand people over to lies all the time. It's because they're finally being judged for the things they've done. God has a right to judge.

 

[Koldo]

God is truth and so it would be self-contradictory.

No, he is not. That is a common but silly way of thinking.
Also, you might be interested in reading Exodus 32.

It's a good thing for us; He does not change. God is righteous so He can't change. He did become a Slave to His own Law in Jesus the Son of man. If God did change His word then He would lose respect from the angels or humans. They would know He doesn't mean what He says.

A righteous individual doesn't threaten others with death for eating a fruit. Period.

 

[kjw47]

What is the “big lie”?

I am not talking about Hitler’s generic “big Lie”, which was to tell a big enough lie enough times, and people will believe you. I am referring to the original “big Lie” of the serpent (Genesis 3:4). The Lie was that if you broke God’s commandment, you “surely shall not die”. Of course everyone but Elijah, and Enoch, who did not break any commandments, all died. Now the story is that if you believe what the son of hell, Paul, preached, then you “surely shall not die”, but be changed in a “twinkling of an eye” and wind up singing on a cloud. Of course that is nonsense, but the lie is so big, and told so many times, it has “many” followers, and they are all headed to “destruction” (Matthew 7:13). “Everyone shall die for his own iniquities” (Jeremiah 31:30), there are no exceptions. You can believe any lie you want, but all will be judged according to their own deeds (Revelation 20:13). The only caveat is that as you judge others, so shall you be judged.

Satan told Eve she would not die--- she died.
Changed in the twinkling of an eye is only to the little flock( Luke 12:32) not to the great multitude. That occurs during the tribulation so the whole little flock-144,000 are together in heaven by Jesus side, separating of the sheep and goats begins.

 

[idav]

Nothing misleading about it. The only other thing God could have done was to take away their free will so that they had no choice of which tree to eat from.

Which is the moral of the story to this point. You are free to do as you chose in this life. But there are consequences if you chose to do the wrong things. God warned us of the wrong things. So the only thing that is left is the consequences of our actions, of which we have already been well informed.

It was misleading, Eve thought she would die by touching the forbidden fruit, which is why I showed the verse and highlighted. Not well informed, they were mislead to believe something. When Eve took the fruit and didn't die she was astonished, and what the serpent said happened, they knew good from evil. Serpent also didn't lie about god just not wanting them to know. The moral of the story is lost when you have a couple of kids not really knowing right from wrong save for some misleading warnings giving the serpent full control over the will of the couple.

 

[idav]

Satan told Eve she would not die--- she died.
Changed in the twinkling of an eye is only to the little flock( Luke 12:32) not to the great multitude. That occurs during the tribulation so the whole little flock-144,000 are together in heaven by Jesus side, separating of the sheep and goats begins.

Eve didn't die for hundreds of years after that when the lord said they would die that day. Adam was recorded having lived some 900 years or so.

 

[kjw47]

Eve didn't die for hundreds of years after that when the lord said they would die that day. Adam was recorded having lived some 900 years or so.

a thousand years is as a day to God--is this what God was referring to? 2Peter 3:8)--- They died spiritually on that day.

 

[2ndpillar]

Satan told Eve she would not die--- she died.
Changed in the twinkling of an eye is only to the little flock( Luke 12:32) not to the great multitude. That occurs during the tribulation so the whole little flock-144,000 are together in heaven by Jesus side, separating of the sheep and goats begins.

There is no “we” being “changed in a twinkling of an eye” except in the eye of the son of hell, the false prophet Paul (Jeremiah 31:30), and Paul’s body is rotting in the grave. The “first” being gathered at harvest time, will be the “tares” (Matthew 13:30). As for the “little flock”(Zechariah 13:7-9), they all had to go through the “fire”, and only one third came out the other side. As for Luke 12:32, read Luke 12:33, which would mean that for you to be one of the “little flock”, you would have to “sell all your possessions and give to charity”. Keep in mind, Luke witnessed nothing (Luke 1:1-3), and his historical accounting of events, can established nothing (Matthew 18:16). As for the 144,000 they are of the tribes of Israel, and they will go through the great tribulation, but be under the protection of the “seal of the living God” (Revelation 7:2)

New American Standard Bible Zechariah 11:7
"Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, And against the man, My Associate," Declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

 

[2ndpillar]

a thousand years is as a day to God--is this what God was referring to? 2Peter 3:8)--- They died spiritually on that day.

They died physically within that day/1000 years.

 

[kjw47]

There is no “we” being “changed in a twinkling of an eye” except in the eye of the son of hell, the false prophet Paul (Jeremiah 31:30), and Paul’s body is rotting in the grave. The “first” being gathered at harvest time, will be the “tares” (Matthew 13:30). As for the “little flock”(Zechariah 13:7-9), they all had to go through the “fire”, and only one third came out the other side. As for Luke 12:32, read Luke 12:33, which would mean that for you to be one of the “little flock”, you would have to “sell all your possessions and give to charity”. Keep in mind, Luke witnessed nothing (Luke 1:1-3), and his historical accounting of events, can established nothing (Matthew 18:16). As for the 144,000 they are of the tribes of Israel, and they will go through the great tribulation, but be under the protection of the “seal of the living God” (Revelation 7:2)

New American Standard Bible Zechariah 11:7
"Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, And against the man, My Associate," Declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Paul as in agreement with Jesus. Jesus appointed him--that means this rings true( Luke 10:16)-- Those that reject the teachers Jesus appoints are rejecting Jesus and God as well. Not a wise place to be standing at this point in time.

 

[kjw47]

They died physically within that day/1000 years.

Yes I know--But which was God referring to? Because they died spiritually on the spot of rebellion that first day.

 

[Enoch07]

Eve thought she would die by touching the forbidden fruit,

Before the fruit. Not able to die

After the fruit. Able to die.

Partaking of the tree of knowledge did kill them, whether it kills them immediately or 1,000 years from then is irrelevant.

 

[Enoch07]

The moral of the story is lost when you have a couple of kids not really knowing right from wrong save for some misleading warnings giving the serpent full control over the will of the couple.

They knew the rules. They were neither naive or ignorant. Here is proof:

Geneses 3:2-3

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

In Genesis 3 Eve explains to the serpent the rule God put in place. She very clearly understood the rule as evidence by how she explained it back succinctly.

The serpent has no control at all over anyone. He merely makes suggestions, usually the suggestions are half truths or twisted versions of the truth. Adam and Eve were able to deny he serpent, and the serpent can do nothing about it. Because not even he can interfere with free will.

Genesis 3:4

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[Faithofchristian]

Although physical death occurred slowly, I think the scriptures show that the primary death God was referring to was spiritual death, the separation from an innocent, loving, trusting relationship they had with God. This happened immediately. Clearly, from the account the serpent definitely lied.

The question to be ask, Is when did the first big Lie took place.
Alot of people are taught that the first big Lie happen with Adam and Eve, But this is a false teaching of man's.

The bible tells when this first big Lie took place.and this was way before Adam and Eve came into the picture.

 

[idav]

Before the fruit. Not able to die

After the fruit. Able to die.

Partaking of the tree of knowledge did kill them, whether it kills them immediately or 1,000 years from then is irrelevant.

Before and after partaking the forbidden fruit, always able to die. Again the fruit didn’t kill them god did. That’s a big difference. They were naive that they didn’t know god would kill them. This is the readers hindsight not the understanding of Adam and Eve. Again Eve thought touching the fruit would kill her. As mentioned the lord said they would die that day. That is a huge difference. They were misled leaving the serpent the ability to use the truth against them.

 

[Enoch07]

Before and after partaking the forbidden fruit, always able to die.

Incorrect. Here is proof.

Genesis 2:9

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God creates Eden then specifically plants 2 trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge.

Genesis 2:16

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

So far so good. God made Eden, plants 2 trees. 1 tree of knowledge which leads to death, 1 tree of life that's provides immortality, hence the name. Free to chose of either.

Genesis 3:22

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

That being said if they only ate of the tree of life, and avoided the temptation of the tree of knowledge, they would have lived forever.

 

[InChrist]

The question to be ask, Is when did the first big Lie took place.
Alot of people are taught that the first big Lie happen with Adam and Eve, But this is a false teaching of man's.

The bible tells when this first big Lie took place.and this was way before Adam and Eve came into the picture.

Oh, well then the lie which took place in the garden with Adam and Eve was the first lie on the earth. The first big lie then occurred when Lucifer claimed he would ...ascend to heaven; above the stars of God, would set his throne on high; he would sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; ascend above the heights of the clouds; and that he would make himself like the Most High.