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Featured What is presented in standard Bibles, as the Biblical law, how it pertains to Christians.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Desert Snake, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Desert Snake

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    I disagree with standard Christianity, concerning what is commonly accepted, as the law, and commonly accepted as all being accordance, with what Moses presented, or, even if what Moses presented.

    •what does 'law' mean, to the Christians
    It clearly does not mean, the same thing, to the Christians, as it does, to the priests. In Galatians, noted as a "foreign curse", outright, and, not considered by the Christians, to be given to Moses, by their G'd.
    Galatians 3:20
    Romans 4:4
    Romans 4:2


    • Did the Christians consider what is commonly considered, to be the 'law', in standard Bibles, as actually, what Moses presented.
    This literally cannot be, because the Christians, supported Moses, and argued on behalf of Moses, saying that the priests, were disobeying, Moses.
    Acts of the Apostles 7:35


    • Why is some of the law, considered correct, by various Christians, if the law, isn't wholly correct.
    The Christians in the Bible, having different beliefs, regarding what is presented in standard Bibles, as the law, from the priests, in essence have their own beliefs, concerning this. In other words, a correlation between what is presented in standard Bibles, as being given to Moses, [the law, textually, definitely does not correlate, to Christian belief.
    Acts of the Apostles 2:39




    Hence, interpretation is needed, if one does not want to consider the entire law, as presented in standard Bibles, as being wholly false. This interpretation may vary, and in fact, may even vary in the Bible. What doesn't vary, is that the law, as presented in standard Bibles, and, often interpreted, as direct from the Biblical G'd, of the Christians, is definitely not considered as such, by the Biblical Christians.

     
    #1 Desert Snake, Sep 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    The Source of the Law is the holy Spirit and which flows as a stream from God's throne. The river of Life.

    The Law of Moses was given to an earthly nation. A people not yet born again. They were yet in the flesh. They holy Spirit flowed into the Law of Moses and from there the Law (empowered by the Spirit) is supposed to be distributed to the people through the administration of the Levites, scribes and prophets.

    But in the new Covenant this Law of Moses is no longer needed. Why? Because now the throne of God is supposed to be directly in the hearts and minds of the people. Therefore the holy Spirit is flowing not through the conduit of Moses' Law. But directly from the throne of Christ in their hearts to guide them, to fill them and to strengthen them to do God's will as if from the very heart.

    A perfect analogy is that of a regent vs. a king. The regent reigns until the king is of age. But once the king comes to the full power of his throne then the regent is no longer needed. So Moses was Regent and Jesus is King.

    So, in conclusion it's not because anything about the Law of Moses was "incorrect" or whatever. It's just that the source of the Law itself is now more freely available and more abundantly given. That is for those who have received the holy Spirit anyway.
     
  3. Desert Snake

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    So, the law, is abolished?
     
    #3 Desert Snake, Sep 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus died to the Law. According to the Law anyone who hangs on a tree is cursed by God. Jesus did that for us. Jesus rose again from the dead so we know that He is not cursed. The curse is put to death in His body. In other words Jesus died to the Law and rose again through the holy Spirit so that all will live who receive the holy Spirit.

    This shows us that whoever is born again their old lives are dead with Him on the cross. Buried together with Him in baptism. Paul said I am crucified with Christ ... They are become a new creation. Founded on the Chief Cornerstone. Jesus.

    This is what Isaiah was talking about. The new thing God does is a "way in the wilderness" Which is the gospel way. Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the Life. And "rivers in the desert" this is the River of the holy Spirit which is poured out on those who seek for it. They who were desert will be as the garden of Eden.

    Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

    Remember Moses wished everyone to receive the holy Spirit like he had it already. But they did not receive it yet. Not until the prophecy of Joel was fulfilled. Until then the prophets had it, but the common people did not.

    And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Numbers 11:29)

    Acts 2:16-18
    But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
     
  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Acts 2:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
    2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    Acts 2:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be preaching the false prophet Paul's false gospel of grace/cross, the tare seed (Matthew 13:30), which is antithetical to the "good seed", the "word of the kingdom" (Matthew 13:19). Now that we are at the "end of the age", the tares, the "lawless" of Matthew 13:49-50, will be gathered to be cast into the "furnace of fire". As for Acts 2:16-18, quoting Joel 2:28, that happens per the "awesome day of the LORD comes" (Joel 2:32), when there will be "survivors" "on Mount Zion", and "in Jerusalem". "Jerusalem" wasn't "restored" (Joel 3:1) until 1967, and therefore none of this could happen until after 1967. We are in the period of the "end of the age", but that is when the tares are "first" "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:39-42).

    As for your "cornerstone"/foundation, that would be to heed the testimony of Yeshua (Matthew 7:24), and to not heed the message of the false prophets in "sheep's clothing" (Matthew 7:15). The "tested stone" (Isaiah 28:16) would be the Law and the prophets. The "covenant with death" which is to be "canceled" is the false gospel of grace (Isaiah 28:18).

    The symbol of the cross is the sign from the beast (Constantine), the instituter of the Roman church, given to him by his god Sol Invictus, at the battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 AD, in which he was to conquer the world under that sign. Constantine built two cross shaped basilicas glorifying the two horns like a lamb, Peter and Paul, and thereby deceiving those "who dwell on the earth" into following the ways of the "dragon" and his "beast" (Revelation 13:14). tick tock
     
    #6 2ndpillar, Sep 25, 2018
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  7. Desert Snake

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    Galatians 3:3

    Galatians 3:11

    Galatians 3:18
     
    #7 Desert Snake, Sep 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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  8. Desert Snake

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    #8 Desert Snake, Sep 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  9. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    We can prove our doctrine without ever referring to writings of Paul; if we have to. So be cognizant of that.

    Constantine didn't necessarily think he was serving Sol Invictus; in fact Julian the Apostate was known as the apostate because he tried to turn the empire back to worship of Sol Invictus and the other pagan gods after Constantine had made the empire officially "Christian" (Roman Catholic). Not that I am defending Constantine. But what you're saying about Sol Invictus isn't exactly supported in history. Not sure where you got that idea. Anyway, Constantine claimed he had a vision where he saw a cross and that vision was interpreted to mean that he would conquer through that sign. He is largely responsible for the formation of the so called Catholic church. Of which church I am not very fond and I do not hold to her doctrines. But they did get one thing right; which is that Paul and Peter are true apostles. :)
     
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  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    According to the unknown writer of Hebrews 8:13, supposedly a friend of the false prophet Paul, it is "obsolete". According to Yeshua per Matthew 5:18, if there is still a "heaven and earth", it is still in effect.
     
  11. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Till all is fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled it. This is why He took the curses upon Himself. Not because He deserved it!

    The Law will continue in the very least detail until the whole thing is fulfilled. So do you follow the entire, whole Law without taking away one single tiny part?

    BTW are you living in a Sukkot right now? Just asking out of curiosity.
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The historical fact is that Constantine produced coinage in 313 AD, a year after his vision, with the image of Sol Invictus, with the heading the "unconquerable". The writer of your version, the man Friday of Constantine, Eusebius, wrote to put a good image on Constantine and his Roman church. Truth was not part of the bargain. It was not until 380, that the "Nicene Trinitarian Christianity" was declared the official Imperial religion by Theodosius, and a year later in 381 AD, at a Council convened by Theodosius, that that convened council rubber stamped the Roman emperor's decree of 380 AD.

    The main doctrine produced at Constantine's council of Nicene, was the false Trinity concept, which is a foundation of 99% of Christianity. And yes, Peter was the first chosen, and therefore will be ranked as the last (Matthew 19:27-30). And both Peter and Paul are listed as "shepherds" (Zechariah 11:8), who along with Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:12-13), would die in the same month/generation, and Peter and Paul would shepherd the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7).
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Apparently all is not fulfilled, for "the awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31) remains behind the door (Matthew 24:33). As for a Sukkot, I have built two, one in the country, and one in the back yard. The Law remains, and when Judah and Ephraim are combined and given a new heart and new spirit, "they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them" (Ezekiel 37:15-24), and be ruled by "My servant David" (Ezekiel 37:24).

    As for the nations/Gentiles, they will confess, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19).
     
  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, well that doesn't mean much. Obviously he could have been still ignorant.

    I'm not Trinitarian. The council of Nicaea got it wrong. I'm Oneness. Jesus is God manifest. The only God. Jesus is Immanuel; God with us.

    So you doom Peter and Paul for what was only done in their name after they were long gone? Peter was first chosen. Big deal! He was long gone.
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    So you believe in sacrificing animals even though Jesus is supposed to be the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world?
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The pass time of America is sacrificing animals and grilling them every week end . As for after the "awesome day of the LORD", when the nations/Gentiles will keep Sukkot (Zechariah 14:16), the "cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come to take of them and boil in them" (Zechariah 14:21).

    As for your sins being taken away, if that were so, you would not bear the plagues of Egypt. Forgiveness of sins is for the righteous (James 5:15-16). The wicked, and those who remain in the daughters of Babylon, receive of her plagues (Revelation 18:4)
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Peter, the stand in for Shebna, the head of the house of David, shamed his master's house and was deposed, and he had an heir, who also had the key to the house of David, and when he opened no one will shut, and "in that day", as in the day of the LORD, he will "fall" and those hanging onto him will be "cut off". (Isaiah 22:15-25). Peter, as the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17) lives on as in the "worthless" pontiff.

    And who is the Holy Spirit?
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said that the true worshipers would no longer worship God in Jerusalem. (John 4:21-22) So that proves the Law is fulfilled. Because the Law commands worship be made to God in the place God has chosen out of all the tribes of Israel to put His name there. (Deuteronomy 16:11) Which is Jerusalem. (2 Chronicles 7:12) Therefore when the true worshipers worship God in Spirit and in truth; then you will know that the Law is fulfilled. Because not even one jot or tittle can pass until the whole thing is fulfilled as Jesus promised.

    And if Jesus is the Lamb of God then the born of God believer doesn't need another sacrifice.

    John 6:51
    I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    Revelation 12:11
    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    God is holy. (Leviticus 19:2)
    God is a Spirit. (John 4:24)
    You're putting various verses together to accuse a man of God. Peter and Paul both died in Rome for the faith; so I will trust them before you. You say they are worthless and leaders of Rome. But Rome killed them for their testimony! Satan's not stupid and his kingdom is not divided against itself.

    Rome itself has been under strong delusion ever since. God gave them over because they persecuted and killed the saints.
     
  19. Desert Snake

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    The cross has more than one meaning. There isn't some 'rule', somewhere, where the cross can only have one meaning. It's generally a bad argument.

    Praise Jesus
     
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  20. Desert Snake

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    Didn't Jesus say, 'take up your cross'. That was before the crucifixion.
     
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