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Featured WHat is Passover?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I recommend not mixing laws. It's unhealthy and will get you in trouble in court.
     
  2. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    That is the law
     
  3. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    That does not contradict what I said.
     
  4. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    What are you talking about and why not just agree with God that the man is just as guilty as the woman in a adulterous relationship. To say the man is innocent of a crime for having sex with a married woman if he wasn’t married is wrong and ignorant.
     
  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I did not say any of that.

    You are conflating different laws.

    It's simple: If a married or betrothed woman lies with another man, then the woman and the other man are put to death. Why? Because it's adultery.

    On the other hand, if a married man lies with another woman who is not betrothed/married to another man, that is not adultery.

    I recommend properly going over the text before assuming, once more, that I disagree with it/did not read it.
     
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  6. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    We were talking about the woman caught in adultery and why wasn’t the man there as well. He was just as guilty just like the Scripture says:
    ““If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.”
    ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I don't see the problem.
     
  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    @ElishaElijah while I believe you that you are putting in serious thought about the list I made, I think we can quicken things a little. I see you have this on your description in your profile:

    "Believer in Jesus Christ, God became man, lived a perfect life, crucified and the Passover Lamb to take away the sins of the world, rose from the dead, will come again."
    And this is my list:

    god impregnating a woman
    The trinity
    Jesus is the literal son of god
    Jesus is god
    Human sacrifices
    Jesus is the lamb of god
    Drinking blood
    Eating human flesh
    god dying and resurrecting
    One can shave his head and face with a razor
    One can get a tattoo
    There's nothing wrong with divination
    Mankind needs a mediator to reach god
    god changed his mind
    god said things he didn't mean
    Which means that at the very least, you believe:

    Jesus is god
    Jesus is the lamb of god
    god dying and resurrecting
    Mankind needs a mediator to reach god
    Is that correct?
     
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  9. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    Oh I thought this thread died.

    :(
     
  10. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Someone else said the man in that situation had no fault of a crime, which is wrong
     
  11. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    Yeah, Harel can read my messages. If he wants to tell me I'm wrong, he's welcome to it.
     
  12. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I did answer the first one some time ago.
    The word trinity isn’t in the Bible but here is an example:
    “When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.””
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  13. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.” And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.””
    ‭‭John‬ ‭1:29-34‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  14. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    If the woman is married, it is adultery including for the man, regardless if he is married or not.

    If the woman is not married, then it is not adultery, even if the man is married, since it is not unlawful for a man to have more than one wife.
     
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  15. Poisonshady313

    Poisonshady313 Well-Known Member

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    you forgot Human sacrifices.
     
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  16. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Human sacrifice - No
    Cannibalism- No
    Drinking blood - No
    Divination - No
    Tattoo- No
    Shave with a razor - Yes
    Man needs a mediator - Yes
     
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  17. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is a reasonable assumption in the context of babies, what can a baby do to be worthy of death, poop its diaper too hard?

    As I see it, your comparison between babies and wolves is a stretch to say the least.

    I'll add in as many jabs at the in my opinion flagrant immorality of your God as I see fit thanks.
     
  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Who decides what’s moral or immoral?
     
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  19. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    So you don't believe that Jesus, a man, sacrificed himself?
    Very well.
    To sum up, you believe:
    One may shave with a razor
    Mankind needs a mediator
    The Trinity
    Jesus is the lamb of god
    Jesus is god
    Jesus is the literal son of god
    god dying and resurrecting


    These are things that are pagan according to Judaism, and I will now proceed to explain why:

    Shaving with a razor:
    In Leviticus 18:3 it says:

    "You shall not copy the practices of the land of Egypt where you dwelt, or of the land of Canaan to which I am taking you; nor shall you follow their laws."
    And then the Torah begins to list off things that one should not do, because that it what the pagans do.

    In Leviticus 19:26-28 it says:

    "You shall not eat anything with its blood. You shall not practice divination or soothsaying. You shall not round off the side-growth on your head, or destroy the side-growth of your beard. You shall not make gashes in your flesh for the dead, or incise any marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.
    This rounding off of the hair and cutting off the beard is something that was done - and is still done - with razors. That's something you're okay with, and is pagan.

    And we have external evidence that ancient pagans did in fact do these things. Herodotus in Histories, Book III, paragraph 8 wrote:

    "Now the Arabians...cuts with a sharp stone the inner parts of the hands, along by the thumbs, of those who are giving the pledges to one another...moreover they say that the cutting of their hair is done after the same fashion as that of Dionysos himself; and they cut their hair in a circle round, shaving away the hair of the temples."
    These same Arabic traditions are mentioned by none other than Jeremiah:

    "of Egypt, Judah, Edom, the Ammonites, Moab, and all the desert dwellers who have the hair of their temples clipped." (Jer. 9:25)
    ""Dedan, Tema, and Buz, and all those who have their hair clipped; all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mixed peoples who live in the desert" (ibid. 25:23-24)
    "...And I will scatter to every quarter Those who have their hair clipped..." (ibid. 49:32)
    Mankind needs a mediator:
    You believe that the only way to god is through Jesus. This is a pagan belief. Pagans thought that they could reach their deities only through the usage of seers, soothsayers and priests. The Tanach tells us multiple times that this is not so:

    Psalms 62:9:

    "Trust in Him at all times, O people; pour out your hearts before Him; God is our refuge. Selah."​

    Psalms 65:3:

    "all mankind comes to You, You who hear prayer."​

    Psalms 145:18-19:

    "The LORD is near to all who call Him, to all who call Him with sincerity. He fulfills the wishes of those who fear Him; He hears their cry and delivers them."
    Furthermore, in Isaiah it says:

    "Honesty has been lacking, He who turns away from evil is despoiled.” The LORD saw and was displeased That there was no redress. He saw that there was no man, He gazed long, but no one intervened. Then His own arm won Him triumph, His victorious right hand supported Him." (Isa. 59:15-16)​

    As you can see, God is the one who carries out His actions in the world, not any sort of intermediary.

    The Trinity:
    Any belief that is not "there is only one God, with no multiple personalities or whatever" is idolatry. There are multiple verses about this in Tanach:

    "I the LORD am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of bondage: You shall have no other gods besides Me." (Exo. 20:2-3)

    "It has been clearly demonstrated to you that the LORD alone is God; there is none beside Him." (Deut. 4:35)​

    "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone." (ibid. 6:4)​

    "See, then, that I, I am He; There is no god beside Me. I deal death and give life; I wounded and I will heal: None can deliver from My hand." (ibid. 32:39)

    "Thus said the LORD, your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: It is I, the LORD, who made everything, Who alone stretched out the heavens And unaided spread out the earth;" (Isa. 44:24)​

    "Thus said the LORD: Egypt’s wealth and Nubia’s gains And Sabaites, long of limb, Shall pass over to you and be yours, Pass over and follow you in fetters, Bow low to you And reverently address you: “Only among you is God, There is no other god at all!" (Isa. 45:14)​

    "Listen to Me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am He—I am the first, And I am the last as well." (ibid. 48:12)​

    "Thus said the LORD your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: I the LORD am your God, Instructing you for your own benefit. Guiding you in the way you should go." (ibid. 48:17)

    "Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we break faith with one another, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?" (Mala. 2:10)
    Jesus is the lamb of god:
    The concept of a "lamb of god", i.e., a sacred lamb is very paganistic. We know that livestock was sacred to the Egyptians. See, for example, Genesis 46:34:

    "you shall answer, ‘Your servants have been breeders of livestock from the start until now, both we and our fathers’—so that you may stay in the region of Goshen. For all shepherds are abhorrent to Egyptians.”"
    And Exodus 8:22:

    "But Moses replied, “It would not be right to do this, for what we sacrifice to the LORD our God is untouchable to the Egyptians. If we sacrifice that which is untouchable to the Egyptians before their very eyes, will they not stone us!"
    Some livestock deities:

    Gods of animals.

    Khnum
    Horns of Amun

    All pagan.

    Jesus is god:
    God is not human. This is stated many times throughout Tanach:

    Numbers 23:19:

    "God is not man to be capricious, Or mortal to change His mind. Would He speak and not act, Promise and not fulfill?"​

    Samuel 1:15:29:

    "Moreover, the Glory of Israel does not deceive or change His mind, for He is not human that He should change His mind."​

    Job 9:32:

    "He is not a man, like me, that I can answer Him, That we can go to law together."
    Jesus is the literal son of god:
    Based on what was said above, this is nonsensical pagan stuff. I don't think you want me to make a list of pagan religions where gods have children, right?

    God dying and resurrecting:
    Pagan like all the rest.

    God is above death, as it says:

    "See, I set before you this day life and prosperity, death and adversity." (Deut. 30:15)

    "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day: I have put before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life—if you and your offspring would live" (ibid. 30:19)

    "David swore further, “Your father knows well that you are fond of me and has decided: Jonathan must not learn of this or he will be grieved. But, as the LORD lives and as you live, there is only a step between me and death.”" (Samuel 1:20:3)

    "You have not given a good account of yourself! As the LORD lives, [all of] you deserve to die, because you did not keep watch over your lord, the LORD’s anointed. Look around, where are the king’s spear and the water jar that were at his head?”" (ibid. 26:16)

    "David flew into a rage against the man, and said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, the man who did this deserves to die!" (Samuel 2:12:5)

    "He will destroy death forever. My Lord GOD will wipe the tears away From all faces And will put an end to the reproach of His people Over all the earth— For it is the LORD who has spoken." (Isa. 25:8)

    "“And to this people you shall say: Thus said the LORD: I set before you the way of life and the way of death." (Jer. 21:8)

    "Say to them: As I live—declares the Lord GOD—it is not My desire that the wicked shall die, but that the wicked turn from his [evil] ways and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways, that you may not die, O House of Israel!" (Eze. 33:11)​

    You know which deity does die? Tammuz:

    "Next He brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the House of the LORD; and there sat the women bewailing Tammuz." (Eze. 8:14)​

    This is a reference to Tammuz's death and rebirth cycle:

    "The cult of Tammuz centred around two yearly festivals—one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna, the other lamenting his death at the hands of demons from the netherworld." (Britannica)
    Actually, the concept of a dying and resurrecting deity appears in many myths.

    For example:

    Ra

    Dying-and-rising deity - Wikipedia

    All of this is not to say that I think that Christianity necessarily borrowed ideas from various nearby mythologies, but these beliefs are nonetheless not biblical, but the opposite - anti-biblical, and thus, are heretical to Judaism.
     
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  20. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    From the beginning God has revealed how He was going to redeem mankind due to our rebellion. He has been revealing Himself, speaking through the Prophets since the beginning, revealing what He was going to do in sending His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    Jesus Christ was innocent and killed by the rulers of that time and really by all of us too, we all sinned and rebelled, all guilty. This has resulted in an opportunity for all mankind to receive eternal life through Him. This isn’t some kind of borrowing from pagan worship, quite the opposite. Satan can only counterfeit and pervert what God does, that’s what pagan worship is, a counterfeit and perversion. As a matter of fact, Satans next attempt will be to help Israel build their Temple and will set himself up in it and declare he is god and command all to worship him, the antichrist and the false prophet doing all kinds of lying wonders to deceive people.
    “However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.”
    ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    “that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.”
    ‭‭I Peter‬ ‭1:7-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
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