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Featured What is marriage?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Xavier Graham, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    So no such thing as rape within marriage in a religious society?
     
  2. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    ..not as previously defined, no.
    Actual bodily harm is another matter, of course.
    If a partner is not happy with their spouse, they should seek divorce.

    I am fully aware, that in the west, the marriage contract is cited in order to divide "the estate" fairly upon divorce and so on.
    Other than that, it doesn't mean much any more.
    There are various reasons for this.
     
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  3. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    How do you define rape?
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    See post #55
     
  5. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    Given that definition, it is surely possible for a man to force himself on his wife against her will, in any society?
     
  6. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    Given that definition, it is surely possible for a man to force himself on his wife against her will, in any society?
     
  7. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    A women does not have to marry somebody, if she doesn't want to.
    Don't be so dramatic.

    If she decides she doesn't like what he's doing, then she can get a divorce.
     
  8. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    What has your first statement above got to do with rape?

    I'm not being dramatic, rape within marriage is a very real thing.

    If she decides she doesn't like being raped, she can get a divorce?? Is that what you are saying?
     
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  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    What are you saying?
    Rape is a sexual assault against another.
    I am fully aware that in a secular society, it is all about consent, and marriage is optional.

    That is because marriage is not respected any more, as a religious institution.
    If two people get married and take religious vows, they give consent to each other. End of ! They are LAWFULLY wed.

    You are speaking against marriage .. that's all.
     
  10. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    I am not specifically speaking against marriage here.

    You seem to think sexual assault within marriage is not possible because the people in question have given themselves to each other in marriage, and seem to be saying that as a result the woman is obliged to have sex with her husband no matter whether she desires it or not on any given occasion. Correct me if I am wrong.
     
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  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    They have a duty to each other.
    Neither party should feel sexually unfulfilled.
    Good people don't force themselves on each other.

    If a marriage is not working out, it needs to be sorted out, one way or another. The police have got better things to do than attend domestic disputes, unless there is serious violence involved.

    A woman who is raped by a stranger in the park and a woman who says "no thanks" to her husband is clearly a different issue.
     
  12. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    I agree that good people don't force themselves on each other, of course. But sad to say, not all husbands are good towards their wives. Sexual assault within marriage happens. Belittling it by referring to it as a woman saying no thanks doesn't change what is happening. Rape is rape whether it happens outside of marriage or inside marriage.
     
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  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Good men are for good women, and bad men are for bad women.
    We make our choices.. :)
     
  14. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    What?
    No.

    That has nothing to do with 'making marriage law redundant'.
    I think you need to be a little more explicit with what you believe.

    Do you think rape can happen inside a marriage? Yes or no.

    Answer from your moral or legal understanding, as you see fit.
     
  15. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    You're really not talking about 'in a religiously strict society'.
    You're really talking about quite specific religions, right?
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    I've already answered that in my last few posts with @Goldemar
     
  17. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    So no-one is ever wronged in marriage?
     
  18. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    No, not really.

    You've made points about 'good people' and how they treat others, but they're just truisms.
    Good people don't rape, whether in marriage or not.

    I'm just looking for a simple yes/no answer.
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Well, you'll just have to keep looking.. :)
    ..but then you don't really care what my opinion is, anyway.
    You want secular law, and you seek to ridicule Divine law.
     
  20. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    How dare I demand a simple answer.

    Hey, you're the one who commenced this by stating that marriage is a meaningless institution in a secular setting. Now I'm ridiculing Divine law by asking your opinion on whether rape can exist within marriage?

    Yeah, right.
     
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