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Featured What is marriage?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Xavier Graham, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. CharmingOwl

    CharmingOwl Member

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    From the Lavenderist point of view marriage was bastardized and turned into an economic agreement. This is influenced by Marxism and traditional paganism where weddings were not expenses but rather events that represented the union between people. For Lavenderists there is no reason they can't practice polygamy or any reason marriage even has to be recognized by the government besides rights and things.

    Various new age gurus and practitioners recommend thinking of your romance as sacred partnership instead of marriage and in our practice we encourage the same thing.
     
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  2. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Are you willing to extrapolate a little?

    1) how does it protect from rape?
    2) why do you think it requires a religious community for adultery to be taken seriously?
     
  3. idea

    idea Question Everything

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    When I was Christian the "bride of Christ" was always a bit... creepy... Jesus was supposed to be a brother, NOT husband. God was supposed to be father - NOT a 3some - eeek!!

    I agree, marriage is your one and only - soul mate, your other half. (Appreciate that definition now more than ever after escaping mormonism). It is bff, loyalty, support, better with age, refined through loss and challenge, in good health and in bad.

    Not defined by government. Not defined by church. Just takes two people, no one else - no middlemen :)
     
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  4. idea

    idea Question Everything

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    I worked with someone from Ghana from polygamous "family". Their description was not marriage - it was a business arrangement.

    I think having kids together can really bind a couple - if they equally raise kids (both change diapers, both cook and clean, both work). For couples where one partner stays home - often lives diverge to separate paths, and marriage is more of duty / business arrangement by the end.

    Sacred partnership - I like that - equally yoked. Both work, both clean, both take equal responsibility - not head and doormat - a true partnership.
     
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  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Yet God got Josephs fiance Mary pregnant and didn't even marry her, or apologize to poor Joe that he knocked up his woman.
     
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  6. Alien826

    Alien826 Older than dirt

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    Jesus said that there is no marriage in heaven.

    The only other place that exists after death is hell.

    Therefore marriage is hell.

    .............................

    Statistics show that married men live longer than single men.

    Or does it just seem longer?

    ..............................

    The three rings.

    Engagement ring, wedding ring, suffering.

    ...........................

    Am I joking?
     
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  7. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    I game with people from Ohio in a polygamist relationship, and am friend with people from North Carolina in a similar relationship. Both trios are families - no scare quotes needed - with children and in the case of the first, grandchildren. All are professionals with accomplished children. All seem as happy as any content couple I know.
     
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  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Please see post #35
     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Likely because I take it personal since I'm in a committed relationship with kids without being married.

    First of all, it doesn't matter what the bible and the quran says when the question is "how does it protect the family". Your answer should consist of an actual argument concerning real-world phenomenon in relation to real relationships with real children and parents and cousins and etc.

    Secondly, it also doesn't matter when the subject is marriage. Neither the bible nor the quran "own" marriage. They don't have any exclusive rights to it. Practically every culture ever has marriage. Not just those of abrahamic culture. Abrahamic religion doesn't get to claim a monopoly on the practice.

    Third... cheating (disloyalty) isn't "worse" when it happens between married couples as opposed to between unmarried couples.

    Cheating is always immoral. Regardless of marriage.

    Fourth, if you require a fear of punishment in order to not cheat, then - to ironically use Jesus' words - you have already cheated in your heart. If fear of punishment is the only thing stopping you, then your family has already lost your loyalty and respect.

    Even if I would grant you that marriage makes you less likely to cheat for that reason, then it doesn't protect the family. Instead, it only keeps up appearances. But there is no loyalty there. No respect.

    You know why I don't cheat?
    Because I'm not interested in it. Because I respect my partner. Because I love my partner. Because I could never do that to her.

    What protects the family is love and respect.
    A piece of paper doesn't change that.

    And, once more, if you require the fear of punishment in order to not cheat... Then already the love and respect, and by extension the whole relationship, is tainted.
     
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  10. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    You should state that upfront to avoid confusion. :)

    Same here.
    I don't require a piece of paper. I too am a man who values the commitment itself, rather than the "legally binding obligation to stay committed".
     
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  11. idea

    idea Question Everything

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    The family from Ghana was much larger than 3, it was a business. Those women worked, ran farms, so the work was good for the favorite wives.

    For polygamous cults where women are not allowed to work, where girls are married young, where there are many more than 3 - not such a great thing for those women.

    Read ghost of polygamy... All different situations.
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    In Biblical point of view, I think people are married in the case I said. But, if we continue to those other cases, in Biblical point of view also, two men that have sex would deserve death penalty. People in orgy would also deserve death, if adultery.

    I don't expect that marriage is declared on basis if man and woman have had sex. Still, I think they are married in that case, I think also mental connection between them is then maid and they have that connection the rest of their life, which I think is marriage. However, this is just what I think. If you think it is wrong, please give a good reason why so. In this matter I can easily change my mind. :)
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    ..not from a secular viewpoint, no.
    That is why I said that marriage doesn't serve any useful purpose, in a secular society. It is based on a religious institution.

    Cheating? Is that how you see it?

    I am not monogamous. I am a Muslim male.
     
  14. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Hmm....well...taking things one step at a time, that doesn't speak to 'rape', or how marriage protects from it.
     
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  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    You want to know how it protects women from rape?

    First of all, you would need to define it...

    "Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration carried out against a person without that person's consent."
    - wiki -

    To police rape, one needs to prove that the sexual assault has taken place.
    In a religious community, marriage implicitly means that there is consent between them.
    It is therefore much easier for the police to prosecute, as in an Abrahamic society, sexual activity outside of marriage is not permitted.
     
  16. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    So are you saying it is impossible for a husband to rape his wife?
     
  17. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I once had a Malaysian work colleague who tried to tell me there were no homosexuals in Malaysia, because it was illegal.

    This reminds me of that.

    1. It's entirely possible to have rape within marriage, and ai fundamentally reject your notion that marriage is implicit consent.

    2. Sex outside of marriage isn't 'rape' where it is consensual no matter how sinful you see it, even by the definition you've provided.
     
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  18. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Not in a secular society..
    ..but then it is notoriously difficult to police rape, in that case.
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    If you wish to make law redundant, then yes.
    What is the point of marriage law?
    That is the issue being discussed..
     
  20. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    No .. it's not.
    It is illegal, punishable, sexual intercourse.
    Not something that is worth the risk .. in a religiously strict society.

    Obviously, lots of people like their freedom .. even freedom to commit evils of various natures.
    In the long run, evil does not make for a stable society.
     
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