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What is magic?

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
If I wanted to test magic's effectiveness how would I go about it?

Magic takes practice trust me, It even takes a while for the practitioner to get the hang of it. Magic also includes studying like studying in school, I would recommend you to read some books from various authors and to take notes on whichever form of magic whether be it initiatory or ritual, whichever may suit you. I would not recommend books by aleister crowley his books are far more advanced and boring and hard to condense, most of his books are mainly stories or based on his advanced practices and other things etc. The book that I would recommend would be Luciferian Witchcraft by Michael W. Ford his grimoire contains many initiatory rituals based on sethian initiatory magic and other forms of magic as well. (Another note) Magic includes focus and imagination and visualization. If you are willing to practice magic I would recommend you to utilize the 5 senses such as sight, hear, touch, smell, and taste. The 5 physical senses I consider to be a key ingredient in magic.
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
If I wanted to test magic's effectiveness how would I go about it?

A couple others gave some tips, though I'd keep in mind it's advice coming from very specific magical traditions. There are so many ways of going about the practice of magic, that there are many, many places one could start. I'm not sure what I would recommend as a "neutral" starting point in the practice, as I'm not sure there is such a thing. The closest I can come up with is to pick up a practice like meditation, which is found in many different traditions and is a foundational skill to more "advanced" workings. If you can learn to alter your state of consciousness at will with an esoteric method like meditation, you've done a type of magic. Learning to meditate "effectively" can take practice, like any skill. Unlike other magical arts, meditation has been studied somewhat by the sciences as a tool for cultivating personal resilience and good mental health. Hopefully, with a semi-regular meditation practice, you would notice those changes in yourself. :D
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
If I wanted to test magic's effectiveness how would I go about it?
I'd say you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Magic involves producing results, whether internal or external, by mental effort. That effort will not be forthcoming without belief. If you go through the motions of a ritual "to see if it works", it won't.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
I'd say you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Magic involves producing results, whether internal or external, by mental effort. That effort will not be forthcoming without belief. If you go through the motions of a ritual "to see if it works", it won't.
A key component that I have learned from an author is that you must have a "will, desire, and a belief." In my own viewpoint I view desire to be an important component in magic.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd say you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Magic involves producing results, whether internal or external, by mental effort. That effort will not be forthcoming without belief. If you go through the motions of a ritual "to see if it works", it won't.

I'm not sure I agree, but we'd have to take that conversation to a debate thread. :D

For the purposes of this discussion, I'll just comment that I feel it's more critical to not have a mental state that is undermining the work. In other words, lack of belief is not as much of an issue as active disbelief. But even that is debatable. There are many tales and stories of spellcraft working regardless of belief or lack thereof. One thing I think happens is that someone who disbelieves will not attribute results to the spell, whereas someone who believes will. If that makes sense?
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Magic takes practice trust me, It even takes a while for the practitioner to get the hang of it. Magic also includes studying like studying in school, I would recommend you to read some books from various authors and to take notes on whichever form of magic whether be it initiatory or ritual, whichever may suit you. I would not recommend books by aleister crowley his books are far more advanced and boring and hard to condense, most of his books are mainly stories or based on his advanced practices and other things etc. The book that I would recommend would be Luciferian Witchcraft by Michael W. Ford his grimoire contains many initiatory rituals based on sethian initiatory magic and other forms of magic as well. (Another note) Magic includes focus and imagination and visualization. If you are willing to practice magic I would recommend you to utilize the 5 senses such as sight, hear, touch, smell, and taste. The 5 physical senses I consider to be a key ingredient in magic.

I hope you know there are more than 5 physical senses......
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
I'd say you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Magic involves producing results, whether internal or external, by mental effort. That effort will not be forthcoming without belief. If you go through the motions of a ritual "to see if it works", it won't.

Than how do you believe I magic in the first place without being illogical?
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Actually there are six senses, the sense of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and in humans there is the heightened sense of Self.

Science has proven that we have more than five physical senses.

Like it or not that is the facts.

"Humans have a multitude of senses. Sight (ophthalmoception), hearing (audioception), taste (gustaoception), smell (olfacoception or olfacception), and touch (tactioception) are the five traditionally recognized senses. The ability to detect other stimuli beyond those governed by these most broadly recognized senses also exists, and these sensory modalities include temperature (thermoception), kinesthetic sense (proprioception), pain (nociception), balance (equilibrioception), vibration (mechanoreception), and various internal stimuli (e.g. the different chemoreceptors for detecting salt and carbon dioxide concentrations in the blood)."
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
With respect to this DIR, what "science has proven" is not particularly relevant. Let's bear in mind where we are on the forums, yes? I don't agree with what they said either, but this isn't the place for that debate.
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
With respect to this DIR, what "science has proven" is not particularly relevant. Let's bear in mind where we are on the forums, yes? I don't agree with what they said either, but this isn't the place for that debate.

Are you saying that science undermines magic fundamentally and thus it cannot be mentioned in this DIR?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm saying if you want to continue being contrarian, you need to take it out of a DIR.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I am asking if the above statement is accurate.

In my opinion, the sciences do not undermine spellcraft/magic in the least. Adramelek was speaking to their own perspective on these matters, and it's a perspective that is not shared by all practitioners. Responding to their post in the manner you did isn't particularly DIR appropriate either, as instead of aiming to better understand another perspective, that is simply a criticism. If you want to discuss this topic in an area where you can throw out criticisms and contrarian remarks like "I hope you know there are more than 5 senses" and "like it or not that is the facts," you need to not make these threads in DIR areas where such things are not allowed. Staff can move threads upon request if you ask us.
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
In my opinion, the sciences do not undermine spellcraft/magic in the least. Adramelek was speaking to their own perspective on these matters, and it's a perspective that is not shared by all practitioners. Responding to their post in the manner you did isn't particularly DIR appropriate either, as instead of aiming to better understand another perspective, that is simply a criticism. If you want to discuss this topic in an area where you can throw out criticisms and contrarian remarks like "I hope you know there are more than 5 senses" and "like it or not that is the facts," you need to not make these threads in DIR areas where such things are not allowed. Staff can move threads upon request if you ask us.

Its not necessary, the sixth sense claim is just a pet peeve of mine.

I apologize.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, the claim that humans only have five senses (and a mystical sixth) drives me nuts too. I'm right on board with you there. :D

At any rate, what @Adramelek said about using your senses is still fundamentally meritous in its overall point. Because spellcraft is a craft - it's something you do and its experiential - it means engaging the senses. I'm fond of saying that paying attention is key, because so often we walk through life and do a whole lot of not paying attention. :D
 
I hope this is in the right DIR. I've heard many people in this forum that say they 'practice magic'. What exactly is magic? How do they practice it? I thought it was the stuff of fairy tales. Answering these questions will expand my worldview for the better! :)
I'm not interested in magic, just interested in the people that do.

I am not sure how other people view magic, but for me it is one of the main staples of my religion. It is to be child like, to remember a time when imaginary things were real and you are in touch with your primal primitive self as you explore that wild and unfamiliar world that is around you. It is a practice where the lines of Fantasy and Reality are blurred with no explanation to prove or disprove a course of action you are engaged in. Magic is in the Trees, the Wind, The Stars above and the Earth below, it is also deep within your being, if you awaken to its calling. It is the Will to live and live well, I perform near supernatural things with my magical Shamanistic workings as evidence in this video of holding my breath for over 3 minutes and 30 seconds underwater

***Do not attempt this without years of practice and understanding of the human body, death or serious injury can occur!***


Magic can involve spells, or connection with Nature, such as calming a violent storm as it approaches your area, generating electromagnetic energy waves within your hands to produce energy balls for spells. My favorite spell is to release Happy and chaotic thoughts and energy in a crowded room to make people happy and laugh without reason. I also can generate heat and if I am with a coven by an outside open circle invitation ritual in cold weather people tend to huddle around me because of the heat I can generate in a localized area, it is a wonderful gift to have! :) The most powerful magic I possess is the power of a smile, a gentle touch and an acknowledgement that you are a human being and very special indeed.

Magic is not only within your being but also within your tools! I wish you could feel the power and magic of charged sacred objects such as a Chalice, an Athame, Candles, and the elements I work with within a circle. *see this display and see if you can feel the magic produced by this picture?*

http://www.religiousforums.com/media/my-sacred-cirlce.7527/

Magic for me is the ability to see the true reality of the world that is around us, the Sacredness of all things observed, The first glimpse of the rising sun in the morning as I am in Awe of it's magnificent and proud arrival, The first sacred wind of the morning with the birds chirping, the Earth moving, the people walking, the insects flying, the symphonic sound of an all magical event unfolding around me as if it was the first time I saw this world in it's truly magical state of being. That is what magic is to me, it is every magical breath taken, the thankfulness of a thirsty plant that you gave water to because it is contained in a vase or pot. the realization that everything around is alive and sacred with no scientific explanation needed to enjoy the beauty and sacredness of the moment.

I love to perform all types of High Ceremonial Magic, from Healings to Celebrations of each magical moment our Earth and Moon reaches during The Sabbaths and Esbats! I wish you could feel the power of the full moon during such a ceremony, or the transition of Nature's seasons during the 8 Sabbath Celebrations, it truly is a time to celebrate the moment and The life that is around us and within us. The rituals involved brings meaning, power and happiness of such events that are oblivious to most who are preoccupied with their life to take a minute to see the magical world that is around them for just one moment.

Magic to me is more than just attaining power or bending the rules of nature for a desired effect, it is the connection of all the forces of Nature combined with all the life forces around that makes this universe a wonderful place to exist in. Is magic Real or is it illusion? That is for each person to decide for themselves, but for me, it is the foundation of what gives me hope for a wonderful exciting life to live and the Humanity I am a part of, won't you please join me in my quest?
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Magic for me is becoming a mix between Vision and Willful Action. We both have to know our place and strive to out grow it, visualize our goals and work to attain them, help yourself before you can help others, things of that nature. It's the sight of Horus and the Pharaoh, seeing the land as a whole. It's the Power and Might of Set, the ability to change how things are into how you desire them to be. And it's Thoth, who "edits" the universe to fit the magicians will.
 
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