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Featured What Is Jesus Waiting For?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Good point.


    ?????????

    I was responding to your

    "Anyway, Jesus is waiting...They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24"
    as if it had some kind of significance.

    .


     
  2. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Oh, thanks for clarifying, I thought you were responding to .... until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved...in Romans 11:26
     
  3. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    The whole "Pre Tribulation Rapture" concept is a relatively new teaching. Quote from Wikipedia below with link to full article. Interesting read.

    "Pre-tribulation rapture theology originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby[12][13] and the Plymouth Brethren,[14] and further in the United States by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century"

    Source
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
     
  4. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    From what I read, pre-tribulation rapture is a different kind of duck from plain old rapture or tribulation rapture.

    .
     
  5. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    In a way. But the "Rapture" camps generally fall into three catagories. Pre-tribulation, Mid-tribulation, and Post-tribulation. The one most believed by Fundamentalist evangelicals today seems to be the "Pre-trib" model. The one where Christ takes them to Heaven before anything bad happens to them, so they can sit on a cloud and drink lemonade, having a good laugh gazing down at all the bad folks stuck under the reign of the Antichrist.
     
  6. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I hope you know that what you just wrote is a very inaccurate caricature.
     
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  7. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Of course. But some folks that I know actually believe much that way.
     
  8. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Well, if so, that is sad. I don't know anyone with that attitude. I see the pre-tribulation rapture in the scriptures, but I certainly don't see the tribulation as anything to laugh about and grieve for those who are left behind.
     
  9. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I personally don't see a pre-trib rapture in scripture (I respect your view though). A former Pastor of my church once said,"I believe in a pre trib rapture", then admitted, "but its 98% hope and 2% conviction. ;)
     
  10. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Today I am tending more toward the Scientific God. So much of what organized religion insists on is just plain ridiculous.
     
  11. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Amen Sister.:)
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Curious, what is the Scientific God?

    .
     
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  13. Sir Doom

    Sir Doom Cooler than most of you

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    He's waiting for season 8 of Game of Thrones just like everyone else.
     
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  14. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

    From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

    According to Jewish time, the first destruction of the Temple of Solomon, was 3338 AM, which is 3338 years from Adam. Our time for that destruction of the temple is 587 BC. So adding 587 to 3338, we see that from the birth of Adam the father of Seth, to 1 BC=1AD there is 3925 years, add to that the current date, 2018, (3,925+2018=5,943) and we are now living in the 5,943 rd year from the birth of Adam (These dates are very ambiguous) which, if one can accept these dates, it leaves us another 57 years before the close of the 6th day and the beginning of the 7th, which is the great Sabbath, “The Day of The Lord” the seventh period of one thousand years from the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930, which day begins after the greatest period of tribulation that this world has ever seen.

    This coming period of tribulation is said to be so severe, that if it were not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive. We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which the Sabbath will dawn, but when? Nobody knows the exact date.

    Acts 17: 31; For the Lord has fixed a day when he shall judge the whole world with justice, by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

    The war to end all wars, which brings in the thousand years of peace, begins in the middle East.

    Zechariah 14: The Lord will gather all the nations together to make war on Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses Looted, and the women raped. Half the people will go into exile, but the rest of them will not be taken away from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times Past. (This has not yet happened)

    But when this does happen, there will be dancing and rejoicing in the streets of Palestine, just as there was when the twin Towers were destroyed and 2,996 innocent people died and more than 6,000 others were injured.

    Numbers 24: 17, "A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors." Zechariah 12: 10; "They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc."

    Isaiah 63: 1-6, "Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?" It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. "Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?"

    The Lord answers, "I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I DECIDED THAT THE TIME TO SAVE MY PEOPLE HAD COME; it was time to punish their enemies.

    I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth."

    See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

    The African tectonic plate in its northern migration, grinds against the Arabian plate in a line that runs up through the Red Sea and along the Jordon valley beneath the Mount of Olives.

    Zechariah 14: 3-4; Then the Lord will go out and fight for his people as he has fought in times past. At that time he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain (On the African plate) will move northward, and half of it (On the Arabian plate) will move southward.

    Could the violent activity around the earth at this time, be the trigger that will cause the super volcano beneath Yellow stone to erupt, enveloping the planet in a cloud of debris? And that day shall be neither day nor night, but a perpetual twilight.

    Zechariah 14: 13; Then the Lord will throw those nations that surround Jerusalem, into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice for a thousand years, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

    Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their Synagogues, Mosques, and Cathedrals of stone, marble, or crystal, who prostate themselves on the floors or who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship THE God of the Bible, the Most High in the creation, ‘The Son of Man’ who evolves from the body of mankind.

    It is in that thousand years of peace that all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath, when heavenly fire incinerate the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more humble Race of men will people this earth.

    "Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

    The water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

    "The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally concentered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

    An extract from a book that is in the process of being written.
     
    #34 The Anointed, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    My personal opinion is that Science and Religion (God, YAWEH, Allah PBUH) are inextricably intertwined. I wasted a great deal of time in my youth listening to folk that insisted that the world was 6,000 years old. I read a thing last night that was written by a genetic scientist, who postulates that all modern genetics originated around 4500 bc (His idea of the time of the flood). So, perhaps, without knowing it, the uber religious are pointing to that time? Maybe God did a little genetic splicing around then? I wish that God would do a bunch more genetic splicing if that is what he did then.

    I don't think that Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created them. Genesis does not indicate that he did. There is a whole bunch of creative stuff going on that we don't have a clue about. How about blue eyes, 12,000 years ago? How about the assertion that all royal blood lines have RH- factor?

    So while God is busy doing his science stuff, many Christians are being all metaphorical about religion and achieving nothing at all. Grrrrr.
     
  16. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    2450 to 2700 AD? It could be earlier.

    Matthew 24:36 New International Version (NIV)
    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    The Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't even know when the world would end. So it is unfair to think that the Lord Jesus is letting mankind to continue to suffer. Further the Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't save everybody. He will save only a few:
    Luke 13:23-27 New International Version (NIV)
    Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

    He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

    “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

    “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

    “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

    Matthew 7:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    Perhaps, the Lord God is waiting for people to find the narrow gate and enter through that narrow door before sending His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ the second time around.
     
  17. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    As I've been told this reference to the Son is in reference to Jesus while he was on earth. God the father, god the holy ghost, and god the son, all sharing the same operating system, would know. In any case, it isn't a matter of knowing when, but a question of why the stalling? What's their reason for letting mankind continue to suffer until "they" finally decide to save us all?

    I have a good idea, but it wouldn't go over well with Christians, so I'll hold my tongue.

    .
     
  18. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Even if the Lord Jesus Christ is already in heaven, he still doesn't know when the Father will send His Son for the second time around.

    Mark 13:31-33 New International Version (NIV)
    Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.

    The angels in heaven are clueless and the Son also, who is already in heaven. Please note the 31st verse - Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. - which also mean the Son's knowledge about the day or hour - he still doesn't know.

    Mankind wouldn't be saved but Christ will save his people.

    Zephaniah 1:3 New International Version (NIV)
    “I will sweep away both man and beast;
    I will sweep away the birds in the sky
    and the fish in the sea—
    and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.”

    When I destroy all mankind
    on the face of the earth
    ,”
    declares the Lord,

    Since it was ordered by the Lord God that He will destroy all mankind on the face of the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ was born to save "his people" from all of this.

    Matthew 1:21 New International Version (NIV)
    She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

    Who are the Lord Jesus Christ's people?

    Ephesians 5:23 New International Version (NIV)
    For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

    Will the Lord Jesus Christ save mankind? No, mankind is doomed to be destroyed on the face of the earth. Then who are going to be saved by the Lord Jesus Christ? His church. If you are not a member of his Church will you be saved? Definitely not, I'm afraid.


    1 Peter 4:17-19 New International Version (NIV)
    For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And,

    “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
    what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”


    So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

    CONCLUSION: Mankind will be destroyed. Even the righteous is hard to be saved much so with the ungodly and the sinner. Who will be saved then? Christ will save his body, his own church.

    If people are not there, it will be so sad.

     
  19. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    In other words, you have no idea why they're stalling and letting mankind continue to suffer---no doubt an example of gods' love for us all.:rolleyes: NOR can you even bring yourself to address the issue, but have to tap dance around it all. Hardly the brave thing to do, MJFlores. Hardly brave at all.

    .



     
    #39 Skwim, Jul 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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  20. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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    I kinda like the theory that what Jesus is waiting for is a moment where NOONE is expecting him, and as such, every breathless self apointed prophet of doom claiming "The End is upon us" is in effect pusshing the actual Second Coming further and further into the future.
     
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