What is it with muslims and torture?

[Looncall]

With the Arab Spring events, I have been hoping for more civilization in the muslim world. Now, however, there are reports of torture under the new regime in Libya. Hopes dashed.

Muslim societies have been notorious for torture for a very long time. Even some participants in this forum seem to approve of people being beaten. It seems that if one falls into the hands of the police in muslim lands, one can expect to be tortured and even beaten to death.

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

 

[Photonic]

With the Arab Spring events, I have been hoping for more civilization in the muslim world. Now, however, there are reports of torture under the new regime in Libya. Hopes dashed.

Muslim societies have been notorious for torture for a very long time. Even some participants in this forum seem to approve of people being beaten. It seems that if one falls into the hands of the police in muslim lands, one can expect to be tortured and even beaten to death.

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

It's mostly because of the state of their education.

 

[robo]

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

I actually have a pet theory on this which is that other scriptures are believed to be divinely inspired in humans. So, God is addressed in the 2nd or 3rd person.

The Quran, OTOH, is believed to be the literal word of Allah himself. The Quran is in the 1st person.

When 1.5 Billion people believe that God himself asks them to marry 4 wives, beat your wives, slaughter animals, kill homosexuals, divide property according to Quranic algebra, dont take interest on loans, Quran 9:5, Quran 9:29, etc., etc. the wiggle room for liberal interpretation of the text is non-existent.

So, yeah...it sucks.

 

[mr black]

Umm don't look now but there was a western administration recently who had no qualms concerning the kidnap, false imprisonment and torture of people it considered enemies.
And BTW 1.5 billion people can't be blamed for the actions of a few, just as 300 million can't be blamed for the actions of a few.

 

[Nooj]

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

Torture exists wherever people who want to use it exist. Especially when the system of government isn't a very nice one. See this wikipedia article on countries that have used or use torture.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I could've sworn that American ran places like Gitmo and Abu Ghrab were torturing people.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

It is dumb to respond to the OP with "Even America tortures people! LOLZ!" seeing as he is Canadian.

 

[mr black]

It is dumb to respond to the OP with "Even America tortures people! LOLZ!" seeing as he is Canadian.

Why?..

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Torture always gets the result you want.
Muslim countries embrace it in the same way the USA has.
It is easy, it gets results, the people you torture are always, what you think they are.
It has either a 100% sucess rate or they die in the process.

Evil, terrorists, sinners, witches... torture always proves you were right.

 

[JacobEzra.]

It is dumb to respond to the OP with "Even America tortures people! LOLZ!" seeing as he is Canadian.

Is it "dumb" or is it to point to the "dumb" way some forget that its not just Muslims who use torture as a tool?

 

[ChristineES]

With the Arab Spring events, I have been hoping for more civilization in the muslim world. Now, however, there are reports of torture under the new regime in Libya. Hopes dashed.

Muslim societies have been notorious for torture for a very long time. Even some participants in this forum seem to approve of people being beaten. It seems that if one falls into the hands of the police in muslim lands, one can expect to be tortured and even beaten to death.

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

You really don't think most Muslims approve of torture? The Muslims I have known personally were pretty nice people, although most of them were standoffish. Blaming them is like blaming all the Germans for what Hitler did- it is not fair. I am not sure why they are silent about it, but I think I can guess why.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is dumb to respond to the OP with "Even America tortures people! LOLZ!" seeing as he is Canadian.

Why's that? I don't think he was trying to use a tu quoque fallacy; I thought I was pointing out another major example of torture in the world that didn't happen to be Muslim.

Also, since we get a lot of our media from the US, I think the way the American media portrays the "big picture" of torture worldwide is relevant to how many Canadians see it.

 

[Looncall]

Umm don't look now but there was a western administration recently who had no qualms concerning the kidnap, false imprisonment and torture of people it considered enemies.
And BTW 1.5 billion people can't be blamed for the actions of a few, just as 300 million can't be blamed for the actions of a few.

I don't buy this. Sure not only muslim regimes torture, but, as far as I know, all muslim ones do. I am willing to be instructed here. Is there a muslim-dominated society that is free of torture?

As for the USA, torture is not regarded as normal. Bush's gang of villains even felt the need to out-source some of it to muslims.

Perhaps not all muslims approve of torture, but why is there such a strong correlation? It doesn't even seem to be function of tyranny given that a population who have just thrown off a tyranny are still torturing. Further, a muslim theocracy (Iran) is notorious for torture.

How can I not conclude that torture is a consequence of islam?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As for the USA, torture is not regarded as normal.

It's not?

Six in ten people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday believe that some of the procedures, such as water boarding, were a form of torture, with 36 percent disagreeing.
But half the public approves of the Bush administration’s decision to use of those techniques during the questioning of suspected terrorists, with 50 percent in approval and 46 percent opposed.
“Roughly one in five Americans believe those techniques were torture but nonetheless approve of the decision to use those procedures against suspected terrorists,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “That goes a long way toward explaining why a majority don’t want to see former Bush officials investigated.”

CNN poll: Majority support waterboarding terrorists, 50/46 « Hot Air

How can I not conclude that torture is a consequence of islam?

For starters, you could realize that correlation is not causation. Most Muslim countries are really hot, too, but I hope you're not going to argue that accepting Islam has some effect on a country's weather.

 

[Rational_Mind]

When 1.5 Billion people believe that God himself asks them to marry 4 wives, beat your wives, slaughter animals, kill homosexuals, divide property according to Quranic algebra, dont take interest on loans, Quran 9:5, Quran 9:29, etc., etc. the wiggle room for liberal interpretation of the text is non-existent.
So, yeah...it sucks.

You should research a bit more. I am a muslim and feel that you have misrepresented a lot of things said in that quote. Yes there are muslims who believe in extremist doctrines but not all muslims do. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the first person to describe the deterioration of the muslims way before anyone (1400+ years). If you are interested I can share more information.


How accurate does the following below sound to the condition we face today?

“A time shall most surely will come upon my people when
Islam shall be left only in name. The Qur’an will be read
by a way of mere ceremony and nobody will act upon it.
Mosques no doubt there will be many, but they no longer
will be the source of light and guidance. The Ulama will
be the worst creatures under the sun; all mischief will
emanate from them and the chastisement of God will come
down upon their heads.” (Kanz-al-Ummal, vol. 6, p. 49)

Allah has ordained a rebirth that will bring back peace and harmony.

 

[Gharib]

With the Arab Spring events, I have been hoping for more civilization in the muslim world. Now, however, there are reports of torture under the new regime in Libya. Hopes dashed.

Muslim societies have been notorious for torture for a very long time. Even some participants in this forum seem to approve of people being beaten. It seems that if one falls into the hands of the police in muslim lands, one can expect to be tortured and even beaten to death.

Why do muslim societies approve, even embrace, torture?

how do you know that those tortured aren't the same people who were killing innocent civilians while Gadafi was in power? i too, if i had the power would torture those people.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Was it not obvious that the people that were being fed weapons were the useless portions of society? Why would they stop even after they have overcome tyranny?

I feel that those people need a change of heart, feeding weapons to emotional people will not help.

 

[apophenia]

how do you know that those tortured aren't the same people who were killing innocent civilians while Gadafi was in power? i too, if i had the power would torture those people.

"Whoever calls for torture will soon be tortured" - apophenia

I am surprised that you wish to torture those people, given your signature which I paraphrased.

Your statement did nothing to refute the OP.

It does seem that there is a cultural tendency to employ torture in the middle east (and other places where torture is not so uncommon). Linking this tendency to Islam perhaps confuses the point. I would link it to education and the freedom to embrace humanism, which has had a large influence in freeing the west from the grip of religion as the final arbiter.

Western nations have a lower incidence of torture, despite the ugly facts of the Cheney-Rumsfeld regime ( the idiot they used as president doesn't deserve to be remembered). The general populations of the USA, Britain, Australia etc were horrified that torture had become policy.

Your remark suggests that torture of those Gadafi supporters is reasonable, so you are acknowledging this tendency in yourself. What would you achieve by torturing those people ? I am interested in hearing your response to that question. Do you think it is Islam which supports your feeling here, or is it something cultural ?

 

[Nooj]

I would link it to education and the freedom to embrace humanism, which has had a large influence in freeing the west from the grip of religion as the final arbiter.

I don't think freeing the West from the grip of religion as the final arbiter had much to do with it. I think it had more to do with governments and what they're willing to do. See the Soviet Union under Stalin, officially irreligious but still lots of torture and execution and so forth.

 

[apophenia]

I don't think freeing the West from the grip of religion as the final arbiter had much to do with it. I think it had more to do with governments and what they're willing to do. See the Soviet Union under Stalin, officially irreligious but still lots of torture and execution and so forth.

Good point. I looked at that sentence and almost edited it out.

It is also true that Russians have a cultural tendency which results in very macho males in power. This was first pointed out to me by a Russian, BTW. As I have been led to understand it, Russians would not elect anyone but a headkicking strong man.

So your example still goes to my point that it is a cultural tendency rather than a religious one. Do you agree with that ?