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What is Hell?
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
susanblange
Active Member
Hell has recently been discovered and photographed by Scientists/Astronomers. It is a super massive Black Hole. It is darkness, freezing cold, hyper-gravity, and a bottomless pit. There is no fire in Hell, the fire is going to be on earth. It is also not forever, eventually your spirit will be extinguished and you will cease to exist. Hell is also not physical torture, it is mental terror. All sin is conceived of in the mind before being acted upon. This is included in George Orwell's novel, 1984, The "Thought Police".
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Why is a black hole seen as Hell? if it were then there must be many hell`s since there are many black holes in the universe?
ajay0
Well-Known Member
As per eastern philosophy, there are three gunas or elements, that have always been and continue to be present in all things and beings in the world. They are sattva, rajas and tamas.
The Gunas Sattva, Rajas and Tamas are present in all of Prakriti (nature), and in all things and beings.
Sattva is the quality of goodness, positivity, truth, serenity, balance, peacefulness, and virtuousness that is drawn towards righteousness and Jnana (knowledge). Rajas is the quality of passion, activity, neither good nor bad and sometimes either, self-centeredness, egoistic, individualizing, driven, moving, dynamic. Tamas is the quality of imbalance, disorder, chaos, anxiety, impure, destructive, delusion, negative, dull or inactive, apathy, inertia or lethargy, violent, vicious, ignorance, suffering and agony.
The Satya Yuga or Golden Age is satto-pradhan or charecterised by intense sattva ; the Treta Yuga is denoted by a combination of sattva and rajas, while the Dvapar Yuga is characterised by a combination of rajas and tamas. The Kali Yuga, the present yuga where we dwell, is charecterised by intense tamas.
Due to increasing tamas and reducing rajas and sattva especially, this time period is moving towards more negativity, vice and suffering. This is manifest in increasing conflicts and wars, pollution, aberrant weather patterns, extinction of numerous plant, insect, animal, bird and fish species. People tend to have a lower states of consciousness rather than higher and auspicious states.
The Prajapita Brahmakumaris state that the present time period of Kali Yuga has made the world a hell for the above reasons. As per the Brahmakumaris, study of wisdom and its contemplation along with its dissemination, practice of virtue, meditation, service can spread positive vibes and raise one's level of consciousness . This will also nullify the corrupting influence of the Kali Yuga.
Hi Amanaki How are you?
Hell I believe can be a condition or state within an individual and/or society where the base animal instincts rule instead of spiritual values and virtues.
susanblange
Active Member
A Black Hole is the absence of Energy. God is Energy. It is omnipresent, omnipotent, and eternal. Light is the purest form of Energy, and heat is the lowest form of Energy. Since there are multiple Black Holes, it is likely there are multiple Hells and they are solitary confinement.
Ancient peoples considered volcanic fumerols etc to be the entrances to hell. I have visited Solfatara and other sites around the phlegraean fields and yes, i can understand why ignorant and superstitious peoples would consider these "forbidden" places to lead to hell.
Now on to biblical hell. It hardly exists in the bible. Nashing of teeth and a furnace
What many christians believe to be hell is based on the works of Dante Alighieri and Hieronymus Bosch.
Good to know that when a good christian tells me that my children and me will rot in hell, their threats come from a dark age comedy poem and a few paintings
A black hole is the energy of hundreds, maybe thousands of our suns compressed in to a very small volume
We Never Know
No Slack
I think the numbers are more like millions to billions of suns.
Well black holes do apparently have a theoretical upper limits of 50 billion solar masses. But the smallest i have heard of is under 4 solar masses
We Never Know
No Slack
Agreed. One is stellar and one is supermassive
susanblange
Active Member
God is the Forces in nature (Daniel 11:38) Gravitation, Electromagnetism, and the Nuclear Forces. Our Sun is the source of Energy for the Universe. It is also the Lord's husband. Psalm 19:4-5. "...in them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun. Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber..." Isaiah 54:5-6. "For thy Maker is thine husband...For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth..."
We Never Know
No Slack
The sun is the source of energy for the universe? Not at all. The sun is a spec in the universe. Watch this video. It's quite enlightening to the size of the universe.
@Amanaki asked in the O.P. regarding "hell".
I like the early Judeo-Christian descriptions of Hades/Hell/Sheol/etc. and their interpretations of it more than the versions adopted by later Christian movements.
VARIOUS TEXTS REFER TO THIS SPIRIT WORLD BY DIFFERENT NAMES
Some confusion is caused by translation since, in describing the “intermediate” world between mortality and Final Judgment Both writers and translators of various early texts use many words somewhat arbitrarily in their translations, to refer to this place such as SHEOL - HADES - SPIRIT WORLD, PARADISE, PURGATORY, etc. (…sometimes "HELL" is used). The TERM “Purgatory” may be a later term, but the doctrine itself existed among the earliest Judao-christians.
Because translators use so many different terms for the same place, Occassionally, it is only the context that saves us from confusion.
HELL, INSIDE EARLY JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY WAS A PLACE WHERE SPIRITS OF THOSE WHO DIED EXISTED WHILE AWAITING RESURRECTION AND JUDGMENT
In the earliest version of this doctrine, All who leave mortality through death enter the place in the middle, i.e. Sheol, hades, spirit world, paradise, etc.
In this ancient theology, all spirits, including the Patriarchs, upon dying, have their spirits placed into this spirit world. Quote: “do you not know that all those who (spring) from Adam and Eve die? And not one of the prophets escaped death and not one of those who reign has been immortal. Not one of the forefathers has escaped the mystery of death. All have died, all have departed into Hades, all have been gathered by the sickle of Death.” (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 8:9; 7)
“ And Death said, “Hear, righteous Abraham, for seven ages I ravage the world and I lead everyone down into Hades – kings and rulers, rich and poor, slaves and free I send into the depth of Hades (T of Abr (rec A) 19:7) .
“For Death deceived Abraham. And he kissed his hand and immediately his soul cleaved to the hand of Death....13...the undefiled voice of the God and Father came speaking thus : “Take, then my friend Abraham into Paradise, where there are the tents of my righteous ones and (where) the mansions of my old ones, Isaac and jacob, are in his bosom... (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 20:9,13-15)
None of these references refer to the punishment of "Hell", but rather Hades was a name for this "spirit world"; the "place in the middle" between life and resurrection into a heaven. Another point of confusion regarding Hades is that the experience there is NOT the same for all individuals since individuals are divided according to their degree of righteousness. Thus the ancient texts describe it differently according to who is sent there (i.e the righteous vs the unrighteous).
I think that the catholic version of this early doctrine took on a bit different character partly because in some contexts, this spirit world was a sort of bondage; a "prison" of sorts. I
THIS SPIRIT WORLD WAS DIVIDED INTO DIFFERENT CLASSES
For example, In describing Sheol, Enoch is shown that it has separate “areas” for individuals to be “assigned to”. In his vision, Enoch asks the angel : .”For what reason is one separated from the other? And he replied and said unto me, “These three have been made in order that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And in the manner in which the souls of the righteous are separated (by) this spring of water with light upon it, in like manner the sinners are set apart when they die and are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed upon them in their lifetime,... until the great day of judgment...They will bind them there forever–even from the beginning of the world. ....Such has been made for the souls of the people who are not righteous, but sinners and perfect criminals; they shall be together with (other) criminals who are like them. (1Enoch 22:9-13)
Since the righteous are with the righteous, they seem to adapt to a calm existence, the unrighteous, being grouped with others of their type and having increased awareness of the result of their moral choices become unhappy in their regrets and distress.
SPIRITS THERE WERE COGNIZANT AND CONTINUED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE MORAL CHOICES AND EXPRESS FREE WILL
In this early doctrine, Hades was not simply a place where souls “sleep”, but they are cognizant and communicate and still have free will. Those spirits who had no idea nor concept of God’s plan for them were still allowed to learn and make moral choices just as those who had the gospel given to them while in mortality. They may make the same moral progress as any other individuals. For example : Enoch, describes his vision of Hades/Sheol, teaching that there are those there who teach moral law :
“Come and I will show you where the souls of the wicked stand, and where the souls of the intermediate stand;... He said to me: The souls of the wicked are brought down to sheol....Samki’el is in charge of the souls of the intermediate,to support them and purify them from sin, through the abundant mercies of the Omnipresent One. “ (3en 44:1-3)
There are many early descriptions of the condition of cognizant spirits in early Jewish Literature such as the Talmud and in much of the early Christian literature as well that describes the condition of these spirits that are in Hades/Sheol/the Grave/the world of spirits (whatever one chooses to call this world of spirits whose mortal bodies have died).
The doctrine of the descensus is foreign to many protestant churches holding to later religious theory, but anciently, the Judao-Christians spoke of the descent of Christ into “the place in between” (sheol, hades, hell, etc.) after his death The descent of Christ into this spirit world after his death is described in multiple ancient accounts.
One is The Gospel of Bartholomew. In this account, the Apostle Bartholomew asks the risen Jesus : “Lord, when you went to be hanged on the cross, I followed you at a distance and saw how you were hanged on the cross and how the angels descended from heaven and worshiped you. And when darkness came, I looked and saw that you had vanished from the cross; only I heard your voice in the underworld,.....Tell me, Lord, where you went from the cross.”
In this christian account, Jesus summarizes his descent into Hades saying : Quote: "I went to the underworld to bring up Adam and all the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.... When I descended with my angels to the underworld ,in order to dash in pieces the iron bars and shatter the portals of the underworld”... “ I shattered the iron bars....And I brought out all the patriarchs and came again to the cross.... “I was hanged upon the cross for your sake and for the sake of your children.” (The Gospel of Bartholomew chapt one)
For example, the early Christian Gospel of Nicodemus, text contains multiple testimonies of the living Jesus after his resurrection AND descriptions of Jesus actions in Hades when he visited the “spirits imprisoned” there.
Thus, early Christian textual traditions and textual witnesses describe the condition of the dead as being able to communicate, learn and progress.
I think this early Christian worldview where spirits of those who had lived are still given the chance to obtain knowledge and communicate is a much more fair version of Hades than the later adoption of a place where God tortures individuals for not accepting a gospel they never had access to.
However, my point in offering such descriptions is NOT to say that a specific modern or ancient description of “purgatory” is completely correct per se, but to offer support to the specific point that the doctrine of a world between death and resurrection/judgement itself was believed by the early Judao-Christians; that it was orthodox; and that the early christians who believed in such traditions would have interpreted scriptures inside this context of belief.
Good luck in coming to your own models of what is to happen after individuals die.
Clear
δρακνεω
I like the early Judeo-Christian descriptions of Hades/Hell/Sheol/etc. and their interpretations of it more than the versions adopted by later Christian movements.
VARIOUS TEXTS REFER TO THIS SPIRIT WORLD BY DIFFERENT NAMES
Some confusion is caused by translation since, in describing the “intermediate” world between mortality and Final Judgment Both writers and translators of various early texts use many words somewhat arbitrarily in their translations, to refer to this place such as SHEOL - HADES - SPIRIT WORLD, PARADISE, PURGATORY, etc. (…sometimes "HELL" is used). The TERM “Purgatory” may be a later term, but the doctrine itself existed among the earliest Judao-christians.
Because translators use so many different terms for the same place, Occassionally, it is only the context that saves us from confusion.
HELL, INSIDE EARLY JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY WAS A PLACE WHERE SPIRITS OF THOSE WHO DIED EXISTED WHILE AWAITING RESURRECTION AND JUDGMENT
In the earliest version of this doctrine, All who leave mortality through death enter the place in the middle, i.e. Sheol, hades, spirit world, paradise, etc.
In this ancient theology, all spirits, including the Patriarchs, upon dying, have their spirits placed into this spirit world. Quote: “do you not know that all those who (spring) from Adam and Eve die? And not one of the prophets escaped death and not one of those who reign has been immortal. Not one of the forefathers has escaped the mystery of death. All have died, all have departed into Hades, all have been gathered by the sickle of Death.” (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 8:9; 7)
“ And Death said, “Hear, righteous Abraham, for seven ages I ravage the world and I lead everyone down into Hades – kings and rulers, rich and poor, slaves and free I send into the depth of Hades (T of Abr (rec A) 19:7) .
“For Death deceived Abraham. And he kissed his hand and immediately his soul cleaved to the hand of Death....13...the undefiled voice of the God and Father came speaking thus : “Take, then my friend Abraham into Paradise, where there are the tents of my righteous ones and (where) the mansions of my old ones, Isaac and jacob, are in his bosom... (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 20:9,13-15)
None of these references refer to the punishment of "Hell", but rather Hades was a name for this "spirit world"; the "place in the middle" between life and resurrection into a heaven. Another point of confusion regarding Hades is that the experience there is NOT the same for all individuals since individuals are divided according to their degree of righteousness. Thus the ancient texts describe it differently according to who is sent there (i.e the righteous vs the unrighteous).
I think that the catholic version of this early doctrine took on a bit different character partly because in some contexts, this spirit world was a sort of bondage; a "prison" of sorts. I
THIS SPIRIT WORLD WAS DIVIDED INTO DIFFERENT CLASSES
For example, In describing Sheol, Enoch is shown that it has separate “areas” for individuals to be “assigned to”. In his vision, Enoch asks the angel : .”For what reason is one separated from the other? And he replied and said unto me, “These three have been made in order that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And in the manner in which the souls of the righteous are separated (by) this spring of water with light upon it, in like manner the sinners are set apart when they die and are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed upon them in their lifetime,... until the great day of judgment...They will bind them there forever–even from the beginning of the world. ....Such has been made for the souls of the people who are not righteous, but sinners and perfect criminals; they shall be together with (other) criminals who are like them. (1Enoch 22:9-13)
Since the righteous are with the righteous, they seem to adapt to a calm existence, the unrighteous, being grouped with others of their type and having increased awareness of the result of their moral choices become unhappy in their regrets and distress.
SPIRITS THERE WERE COGNIZANT AND CONTINUED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE MORAL CHOICES AND EXPRESS FREE WILL
In this early doctrine, Hades was not simply a place where souls “sleep”, but they are cognizant and communicate and still have free will. Those spirits who had no idea nor concept of God’s plan for them were still allowed to learn and make moral choices just as those who had the gospel given to them while in mortality. They may make the same moral progress as any other individuals. For example : Enoch, describes his vision of Hades/Sheol, teaching that there are those there who teach moral law :
“Come and I will show you where the souls of the wicked stand, and where the souls of the intermediate stand;... He said to me: The souls of the wicked are brought down to sheol....Samki’el is in charge of the souls of the intermediate,to support them and purify them from sin, through the abundant mercies of the Omnipresent One. “ (3en 44:1-3)
There are many early descriptions of the condition of cognizant spirits in early Jewish Literature such as the Talmud and in much of the early Christian literature as well that describes the condition of these spirits that are in Hades/Sheol/the Grave/the world of spirits (whatever one chooses to call this world of spirits whose mortal bodies have died).
The doctrine of the descensus is foreign to many protestant churches holding to later religious theory, but anciently, the Judao-Christians spoke of the descent of Christ into “the place in between” (sheol, hades, hell, etc.) after his death The descent of Christ into this spirit world after his death is described in multiple ancient accounts.
One is The Gospel of Bartholomew. In this account, the Apostle Bartholomew asks the risen Jesus : “Lord, when you went to be hanged on the cross, I followed you at a distance and saw how you were hanged on the cross and how the angels descended from heaven and worshiped you. And when darkness came, I looked and saw that you had vanished from the cross; only I heard your voice in the underworld,.....Tell me, Lord, where you went from the cross.”
In this christian account, Jesus summarizes his descent into Hades saying : Quote: "I went to the underworld to bring up Adam and all the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.... When I descended with my angels to the underworld ,in order to dash in pieces the iron bars and shatter the portals of the underworld”... “ I shattered the iron bars....And I brought out all the patriarchs and came again to the cross.... “I was hanged upon the cross for your sake and for the sake of your children.” (The Gospel of Bartholomew chapt one)
For example, the early Christian Gospel of Nicodemus, text contains multiple testimonies of the living Jesus after his resurrection AND descriptions of Jesus actions in Hades when he visited the “spirits imprisoned” there.
Thus, early Christian textual traditions and textual witnesses describe the condition of the dead as being able to communicate, learn and progress.
I think this early Christian worldview where spirits of those who had lived are still given the chance to obtain knowledge and communicate is a much more fair version of Hades than the later adoption of a place where God tortures individuals for not accepting a gospel they never had access to.
However, my point in offering such descriptions is NOT to say that a specific modern or ancient description of “purgatory” is completely correct per se, but to offer support to the specific point that the doctrine of a world between death and resurrection/judgement itself was believed by the early Judao-Christians; that it was orthodox; and that the early christians who believed in such traditions would have interpreted scriptures inside this context of belief.
Good luck in coming to your own models of what is to happen after individuals die.
Clear
δρακνεω
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Your belief is just that, belief. But the of course, you have no empirical evidence to back up your belief
Whereas black holes are evidenced to be the greatest sources of energy in the universe.
Daniel mentions nothing about Gravitation, Electromagnetism, and the Nuclear Forces., I can only assume you made that up.
The sun is a tiny mote among a billion trillion similar motes in the universe, most of those motes are more energetic than our sun.
Here, to put things in perspective
This is a picture taken of a section of the night sky, a tiny area the size of a dime as you would see it from 50 feet away.
Every point of light you see is not a star but an entire galaxy of between 250 million and 150 billion suns, most considerably larger and more energetic than our own sun.
The sun is the source of energy for our tiny solar system. And even that only shines dimly on the outer planets.
Here is another pic, taken by voyager as it reached the limits of our solar system
Can you see our sun?
And all those in between
susanblange
Active Member
Our Sun is the center of the Universe. I say this because God has made our galaxy and planet inhabitable by humans. God will live on earth forever in his rebuilt Temple at the center of the earth, Jerusalem.
And how do you know there are not myriad planets out there in the universe that are not inhabited by beings who think their solar system is not the centre of the universe?
susanblange
Active Member
All life in the Universe originated on Earth. There is only one God and he has made the earth his habitation. If there is alien life on other planets, it originated on earth. The only habitable planet in the Universe for humans is earth.