ThirtyThree
Well-Known Member
Okay, I think this forum has enough "What is Hell" type threads to last an eternity. How about a "What is Heaven" thread instead? What does everyone think?
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What is Heaven
- Thread starter ThirtyThree
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Lol. I dont know. My Christian co-worker said humans would be above the angels worshiping god non stop. Pain free. Forget everything but god.
I think heaven is a temporary condition on the higher astral and mental planes where much beauty, love and high minded thoughts and expressions exist. I must reiterate this is a temporary place, and ultimate final liberation/Nirvana/Moksha comes with realization that all is One consciousness in being-bliss-awareness.
ThirtyThree
Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That is desirable?!
Eh. For her.
Heaven is just a convenient if necessarily vague umbrella term for various conceptions of some highly desirable state or realm.
Most if not all conceptions include attributes such as immutability or at least extreme stability of the environment; an exceedingly pleasant nature; and often some sort of divine warranty to explain the previous two attributes.
As is to be expected, the concept is most advisable when understood as a symbol or allegory. Taken literally is quickly degenerates and becomes self-contradictory.
Most if not all conceptions include attributes such as immutability or at least extreme stability of the environment; an exceedingly pleasant nature; and often some sort of divine warranty to explain the previous two attributes.
As is to be expected, the concept is most advisable when understood as a symbol or allegory. Taken literally is quickly degenerates and becomes self-contradictory.
use_your_brain
Active Member
there will no longer any kind of worshiping in heaven. only filled with joyful.
"Lo! those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight, (17) Happy because of what their Lord hath given them, and (because) their Lord hath warded off from them the torment of hell-fire. (18) (And it is said unto them): Eat and drink in health (as a reward) for what ye used to do, (19) Reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. (20) And they who believe and whose seed follow them in faith, We cause their seed to join them (there), and We deprive them of nought of their (life's) work. Every man is a pledge for that which he hath earned. (21) And We provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire. (22) There they pass from hand to hand a cup wherein is neither vanity nor cause of sin. (23) And there go round, waiting on them menservants of their own, as they were hidden pearls. (24) And some of them draw near unto others, questioning, (25) Saying: Lo! of old, when we were with our families, we were ever anxious; (26)But Allah hath been gracious unto us and hath preserved us from the torment of the breath of Fire. (27)Lo! we used to pray unto Him of old. Lo! He is the Benign, the Merciful."
Quran
"Those are they who will be brought nigh (11) In gardens of delight; (12) A multitude of those of old (13) And a few of those of later time. (14) On lined couches, (15) Reclining therein face to face. (16) There wait on them immortal youths (17) With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring (18) Wherefrom they get no aching of the head nor any madness, (19) And fruit that they prefer (20) And flesh of fowls that they desire. (21) And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, (22) Like unto hidden pearls, (23) Reward for what they used to do. (24) There hear they no vain speaking nor recrimination (25) (Naught) but the saying: Peace, (and again) Peace. (26) And those on the right hand; what of those on the right hand? (27) Among thornless lote-trees (28) And clustered plantains, (29) And spreading shade, (30) And water gushing, (31) And fruit in plenty (32)Neither out of reach nor yet forbidden, (33) And raised couches; (34) Lo! We have created them a (new) creation (35) And made them virgins, (36) Lovers, friends. "
Quran
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Ahmadiyya-Muslim Understanding
Peace be on you.
Timely change!
For full nearness to God and for complete appreciations and rewards, mere 3 dimensional physical life is not enough......... If one kills hundred of innocents, this world can kill him only for once.....So there has to be wider platform.
"".....The question of life after death has always agitated the minds of people belonging to all religions and all ages alike. There is also the atheistic view which totally denies the possibility of life after death. The religions which believe in life after death can be divided into two categories......
............
............
.........the life in the hereafter would not be material. Instead, it would be of a spiritual nature of which we can only visualise certain aspects. We cannot determine precisely how things will take shape. One of the salient features of his vision of the hereafter concerns the soul giving birth to another rarer entity, which would occupy the same position in relation to the soul as the soul occupies in relation to our carnal existence here on earth. This birth of a soul from within the soul will be related to the sort of life that we have lived here on earth. If our lives here are spent in submission to the will of God and in accordance with His commands, our tastes gradually become cultured and attuned to enjoying spiritual pleasures as against carnal pleasures. Within the soul a sort of embryonic soul begins to take shape. New faculties are born and new tastes are acquired, in which those accustomed to carnal pleasures find no enjoyment......""
Ref: https://www.alislam.org/books/study-of-islam/life-after-death.html
[Holy Quran ch54:v55] Verily, the righteous will be in the midst of Gardens and streams,
[54:56] In the seat of truth with an Omnipotent King.
Resource: https://www.alislam.org/books/essence/chap17/chap17.html
use_your_brain
Active Member
where did you get this wrong quote? "..the life in the hereafter would not be material. .."
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Heaven is a magical place where a person exists in bliss. Evidently, it's sorta like an eternal heroin haze.
I believe heaven is the dwelling place of Jehovah God and his spirit Sons. Although the Bible uses the term heavens to mean various literal and symbolic things, the place God resides is called heaven, and I think this is what most people think of when the word is mentioned. (Hebrews 9:24)
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
It comes form Holy Quran:
Please see [ch 13 : v36 ] Note # 1447
Ref: https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=490®ion=EN&CR=E1,E2&CR=E1,E2
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In material world
[6:104] Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
In Hereafter (Heaven / Paradise)
[75:22] And you neglect the Hereafter.
[75:23] Some faces on that day will be bright,
[75:24] Looking eagerly towards their Lord;
Thus Heaven will not be material like this world.
Good wishes.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
it is that place where you end up alongside others like yourself....
how else to be happy?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
My impression of the afterlife (from dreams) is that essentially it's whatever made you generally happy. Like dreams, there are no reality constraints, so if you want to go joyriding with space aliens or dance with Disney Princesses or whatever ... sure, we got that. 
I also suspect there is only one afterlife and "hell" is what you experience if you are miserable and "heaven" is what you experience if you are joyful.
I also suspect there is only one afterlife and "hell" is what you experience if you are miserable and "heaven" is what you experience if you are joyful.
use_your_brain
Active Member
Peace be on you.
It comes form Holy Quran:
Please see [ch 13 : v36 ] Note # 1447
Ref: https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=490®ion=EN&CR=E1,E2&CR=E1,E2
=====
In material world
[6:104] Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
In Hereafter (Heaven / Paradise)
[75:22] And you neglect the Hereafter.
[75:23] Some faces on that day will be bright,
[75:24] Looking eagerly towards their Lord;
Thus Heaven will not be material like this world.
Good wishes.
do you talk about God or heaven? in heaven there are fruits, meats, beverages, clothes, wives, couches, and so on. They are all material stuff.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you. To my understanding, these are metaphoric / symbolic names only:
[2:26] And give glad tidings to those who believe and do good works, that for them are Gardens beneath which flow streams. Whenever they are given a portion of fruit therefrom, they will say: ‘This is what was given us before,’ and gifts mutually resembling shall be brought to them. And they will have therein mates perfectly pure, and therein will they abide.
========
Meeting with God:
[10:8] Those who look not for the meeting with Us and are content with the life of this world and feel at rest therewith, and those who are heedless of Our Signs —
This meeting will be full in Hereafter, God is not material, thus that whole environment (including Paradise) will not be material.
========
If you have any other opinion, you can have.
Each one can provide their understanding.
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use_your_brain
Active Member
that verse doesn't imply it is not material stuff in heaven.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Essentially, it is that which is inaccessible to fleshly humans -because they are presently physically bound to the earth.
Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
Joh 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
There is a literal city being prepared elsewhere -in "heaven" -which will eventually be brought down to Earth.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God
Technically, God is everything, but has allocated some of what he is in creating us -and can be effectively separate from us
by decision -by giving decision and dominion over to others, etc.
God is creating more like him -and Christ is the firstborn of many brethren -so we will be as God -many gods within all that is God.
Similarly, if God has a literal "place" which is the seat of his throne, it is a place within himself which is designated for a specific purpose.
It is as if you closed your eyes and built a world within your mind -represented yourself in a certain place within your mind to other beings you created within your mind -but God does it "for real".
It is also similar to how the Word became Christ -but was also Melchizedek, had a glorious body -the back parts of which were shown to Moses, was as a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke, etc., etc.
So -heaven is that which God set us apart from. It includes the sky, the universe -whatever else may be out there or beyond.
Apparently, there are literal structures out there somewhere -whatever "out there" may mean -and a city being built/prepared to be brought down to Earth -and a temple now in "heaven", even though it is not actually necessary that God dwell within structures.
The exact place or composition of his present throne/temple -where the sons of God -the angels -present themselves before him -is not specified.
(Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD.......
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven.........)
When we are given bodies similar to that which allowed the Word -who became Christ -to create all things and make all things subject to him -we will then have access to the sky, the universe, etc....
...even though God will make Earth the new place of his "dwelling" -no longer separating us from him -or himself from us.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Those made immortal when Christ returns will meet him in the air (being able to do so by the composition of their new bodies) -having been changed into immortals -but will then reign with him as kings and priests on Earth initially -for a thousand years -but will then have eternity to go beyond.
The new Jerusalem will essentially become the capital of the universe -and of the increase of the government of Christ (by whom and for whom all things were made) there will be no end.
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I don't know. Probably a miracolous place where it is possible to be happier to play a harp rather than a Stratocaster with Marshall amplifiers.
Ciao
- viole
ThirtyThree
Well-Known Member
Who get to be the "manservants" ?