What is "God's Will?"

[Quintessence]

In various types of discussions, folks will often invoke a particular course of events as being the will of their god. I've observed that such invocations are made most often when issues relating to ethics come up; if something is the will of their god, the event or behavior is justified, accepted, or in some respects validated. After the will of their god is invoked, the event or behavior in question is often viewed as beyond questioning or criticism; that is the way things are supposed to be, The End. I think this concept of the will of the gods comes up primarily for monotheistic religions, and it is in those monotheistic religions that I have a hard time understanding it. What does that mean to them, this "God's will" stuff? Surely there is more to it than a shallow rationalization for one's ethical norms or personal and cultural values? What am I missing here? What does this "God's will" stuff really mean to you monotheists out there? How do you figure out what the will of your god is? Given different monotheists will think the will of their god - and presumably they're all taking about the same god - differently, who is right and how do you determine who really knows what your god's will is? It all seems nightmarishly complicated to me.

Other theistic and non-theistic perspectives are welcome of course, but I'm primarily interested in attempting to understand what this concept means to the monotheisms. I've heard a lot of harsh criticism of the monotheist "God's will" concept, but I'm curious to get a more balanced perspective on it.

 

[Skwim]

In various types of discussions, folks will often invoke a particular course of events as being the will of their god. I've observed that such invocations are made most often when issues relating to ethics come up; if something is the will of their god, the event or behavior is justified, accepted, or in some respects validated. After the will of their god is invoked, the event or behavior in question is often viewed as beyond questioning or criticism; that is the way things are supposed to be, The End. I think this concept of the will of the gods comes up primarily for monotheistic religions, and it is in those monotheistic religions that I have a hard time understanding it. What does that mean to them, this "God's will" stuff? Surely there is more to it than a shallow rationalization for one's ethical norms or personal and cultural values? What am I missing here?

No, I don't believe it's anything more than that. You're not missing anything.

What does this "God's will" stuff really mean to you monotheists out there? How do you figure out what the will of your god is?

If it serves to exculpate an otherwise vile, or simply naughty act then it's a "god's will" thing.

Given different monotheists will think the will of their god - and presumably they're all taking about the same god - differently, who is right and how do you determine who really knows what your god's will is? It all seems nightmarishly complicated to me.

I believe the tactic is to stick with ones own god and simply ignore the others.

 

[Me Myself]

I personally believe if it happens it was gods will.

Yes, it includes the bad stuff.

 

[Boyd]

In various types of discussions, folks will often invoke a particular course of events as being the will of their god. I've observed that such invocations are made most often when issues relating to ethics come up; if something is the will of their god, the event or behavior is justified, accepted, or in some respects validated. After the will of their god is invoked, the event or behavior in question is often viewed as beyond questioning or criticism; that is the way things are supposed to be, The End. I think this concept of the will of the gods comes up primarily for monotheistic religions, and it is in those monotheistic religions that I have a hard time understanding it. What does that mean to them, this "God's will" stuff? Surely there is more to it than a shallow rationalization for one's ethical norms or personal and cultural values? What am I missing here? What does this "God's will" stuff really mean to you monotheists out there? How do you figure out what the will of your god is? Given different monotheists will think the will of their god - and presumably they're all taking about the same god - differently, who is right and how do you determine who really knows what your god's will is? It all seems nightmarishly complicated to me.

Other theistic and non-theistic perspectives are welcome of course, but I'm primarily interested in attempting to understand what this concept means to the monotheisms. I've heard a lot of harsh criticism of the monotheist "God's will" concept, but I'm curious to get a more balanced perspective on it.

Often for me, I have seen the idea of G-d's will being invoked in regards to tragedy and suffering. I've ministered at numerous funerals in which one will often hear that it must have been G-d's will that the loved one passed on.

For many, I think it gives them some sort of meaning for the tragic event. It gives them some sort of comfort, as well as some hope.

 

[Quintessence]

I personally believe if it happens it was gods will.

Yes, it includes the bad stuff.

That's typically how I see it as well as a polytheist whose gods are fully immanent (or reality itself), but it's different from the perspective of classical monotheism where the god-concept is wholly benevolent. Or is the bad stuff perceived as necessary for the "greater good?" Is it a thing where X had to suffer so A, B, and C did not?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

That's typically how I see it as well as a polytheist whose gods are fully immanent (or reality itself), but it's different from the perspective of classical monotheism where the god-concept is wholly benevolent. Or is the bad stuff perceived as necessary for the "greater good?" Is it a thing where X had to suffer so A, B, and C did not?

God's "mysterious ways" are used as a justification for apparent unfairness of life. Even the holocaust can and probably has been argued as part of God's benevolent master plan.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I personally believe if it happens it was gods will.

Yes, it includes the bad stuff.

That's exactly how I see it.

 

[Quintessence]

Often for me, I have seen the idea of G-d's will being invoked in regards to tragedy and suffering. I've ministered at numerous funerals in which one will often hear that it must have been G-d's will that the loved one passed on.

For many, I think it gives them some sort of meaning for the tragic event. It gives them some sort of comfort, as well as some hope.

I appreciate the use of the "God's will" statement where it is being used in a positive fashion like this amongst people who share a common religious tradition. Such phrases should be used to heal, not to hurt, I think. It is sad when people use the phrase to hurt - especially since I question whether their god would approve of such usages.

 

[Quintessence]

God's "mysterious ways" are used as a justification for apparent unfairness of life. Even the holocaust can and probably has been argued as part of God's benevolent master plan.

I've often found it odd how certain cultures and peoples think that life is supposed to be fair and that there's some cosmic scorecard in the sky tallying things up. It is too inconsistent with my day-to-day experience of reality for me to accept. This idea of cosmic scorecards comes up in my own religious community as well, though the language of "God's will" isn't used. It confuses me there too, that there's this default expectation that life is supposed to be fair or that creatures and objects get what they "deserve."

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I've often found it odd how certain cultures and peoples think that life is supposed to be fair and that there's some cosmic scorecard in the sky tallying things up. It is too inconsistent with my day-to-day experience of reality for me to accept. This idea of cosmic scorecards comes up in my own religious community as well, though the language of "God's will" isn't used. It confuses me there too, that there's this default expectation that life is supposed to be fair or that creatures and objects get what they "deserve."

This expresses itself in so many ways, including the concept of equality in general.

If I had to give my (atheistic) view on what is "God's will", I would assume it to be whatever happens to occur, since God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing.

 

[nazz]

In various types of discussions, folks will often invoke a particular course of events as being the will of their god. I've observed that such invocations are made most often when issues relating to ethics come up; if something is the will of their god, the event or behavior is justified, accepted, or in some respects validated. After the will of their god is invoked, the event or behavior in question is often viewed as beyond questioning or criticism; that is the way things are supposed to be, The End. I think this concept of the will of the gods comes up primarily for monotheistic religions, and it is in those monotheistic religions that I have a hard time understanding it. What does that mean to them, this "God's will" stuff? Surely there is more to it than a shallow rationalization for one's ethical norms or personal and cultural values? What am I missing here? What does this "God's will" stuff really mean to you monotheists out there? How do you figure out what the will of your god is? Given different monotheists will think the will of their god - and presumably they're all taking about the same god - differently, who is right and how do you determine who really knows what your god's will is? It all seems nightmarishly complicated to me.

Other theistic and non-theistic perspectives are welcome of course, but I'm primarily interested in attempting to understand what this concept means to the monotheisms. I've heard a lot of harsh criticism of the monotheist "God's will" concept, but I'm curious to get a more balanced perspective on it.

I'm not necessarily a monotheist (according to the debate in the Panentheism section) but I am a Christian in the sense that I follow Christ. For me God's will is revealed through Jesus Christ. The ethics he taught are not what I would normally choose for myself. As for God's will being done on earth it is clear that is not the case as Jesus himself pointed out.

 

[Badran]

In the religion i grew up with, it was mostly like Gjallarhorn described. Though the idea was that generally pretty much everything is god's will, or at least, that nothing happens without god allowing for it, it was still somehow all for the good - not excluding anything. In the long run, everything that happens is for a good reason. It's a cornerstone to dealing with many of the things which people suffered through, were disappointed with and/or were bewildered about.

The expectation for there to be justice from a certain perspective in the first place can at least be partially traced to the upbringing with such a world view. I was brought up thinking that there's a force residing over life, a force that can't make mistakes, and that it had our best interest as a goal (which was to be achieved by necessity, due the force's infinite power).

Further, and beyond the expectation being developed due to upbringing, i think this expectation in a way is understandable due to people's immense care for their self-interest, and at the same time, at many times, their inability to deal with the challenges which face their self-interest. It's in people's best interest for there to be justice in things, for there to be a good explanation for everything. An explanation that serves them. I can see how such a concept would could come to life, and i sympathize with the need for it.

 

[nazz]

It seems this discussion is going in two directions. First there is the idea of God's will applying to whatever happens. Second a view that God's will is a matter of ethics that should affect what happens in the world.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

I believe that everything is 'God's Will'. Hindus circumvent this with the introduction of Karma.

I don't know anything about Karma, but if something happens...like 'why does God let people starve in Africa?' 'why does a loving deity wipe the Philippines off the map?' etc?

All I can say is 'I honestly don't know, maybe you should ask Him'.

 

[Vouthon]

According to the Catholic Church, the Second Vatican Council's "Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation" of 1965 states:

"...In His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4). Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself..."

- Dei Verbum (Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation), Ch. 1(2) (1965)

In other words, the Church teaches that the "will of God" is to unite mankind to Himself and deify us, that is share His Divine Nature with us through grace. This is known as the doctrine of theosis or divinization. This doctrine is fundamental to the teaching of the Church Fathers, who held that "God became man, so that man might become God" [St. Augustine, Sermo 13 de Tempore].

The entire purpose of the divine economy whereby the Son of God became incarnate was for the deification of man.

This was expressed quite simply by Saint Catherine of Genoa:

"...I will not be content until I am locked and enclosed within that divine heart in which all created forms lose themselves and, so lost, remain divine...My I is God, and I know of no other I than this my God...God became man in order to make me God; therefore I want to be changed completely into pure God..."

- Saint Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510), Italian Catholic mystic

 

[seeking4truth]

As far as I can see there are two parts to 'God's Will'.
God created all in accordance with the requirements of wisdom to demonstrate the nature of God.
The laws of science or nature through which the universe operates are 'God's will'. They are there for our progress and evolution in a physical world. Without exception we are all governed by them and are subject through them to 'God's will'. For our development and for our needs the system allows progress but also regression. We learn from the problems more than from the comforts we have available. Problems compel us to analyse and investigate more than ease does. The physical laws allow pleasure and pain both of which allow us to develop.

Parallel to the physical scientific laws there are also social, moral and spiritual laws. Over these we have some choice but according to our choices we may benefit or suffer by our own hands. The laws are operating here as well but are not always so accepted as are scientifically measurable laws.
When anyone contravenes the laws they will suffer and may cause others to suffer too. eg. fire warms and helps but also destroys. If a person drops bombs and causes death by fire is God to blame? God created the laws but gave us choice how to apply them. God warns against misuse.
It is God's will we use things to benefit others generously not selfishly. It is our own fault if we do not listen. I don't think you can say in such cases 'it is 'God's will'.

 

[starlite]

When we study the Bible, we are wise to meditate on what we read and store it in our heart so that we can determine what pleases God in a particular situation. We can discern God’s will by digging into the Scriptures as though searching for a buried treasure and then meditating on the many Biblical accounts of God's dealings with humans. God's will is revealed to through the pages of the Bible and there are no secrets for those who really want to know.

For example...in the Lord's Prayer we pray for God's will to be done on earth, just as it is in heaven. “Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”—Matthew 6:10. If we are going to pray for something, I feel we have the responsibility to know what we are praying for, don't you?

 

[nazz]

According to the Catholic Church, the Second Vatican Council's "Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation" of 1965 states:





In other words, the Church teaches that the "will of God" is to unite mankind to Himself and deify us, that is share His Divine Nature with us through grace. This is known as the doctrine of theosis or divinization. This doctrine is fundamental to the teaching of the Church Fathers, who held that "God became man, so that man might become God" [St. Augustine, Sermo 13 de Tempore].

The entire purpose of the divine economy whereby the Son of God became incarnate was for the deification of man.

This was expressed quite simply by Saint Catherine of Genoa:

Wow, very Gnostic!

 

[nazz]

When we study the Bible, we are wise to meditate on what we read and store it in our heart so that we can determine what pleases God in a particular situation. We can discern God’s will by digging into the Scriptures as though searching for a buried treasure and then meditating on the many Biblical accounts of God's dealings with humans. God's will is revealed to through the pages of the Bible and there are no secrets for those who really want to know.

For example...in the Lord's Prayer we pray for God's will to be done on earth, just as it is in heaven. “Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”—Matthew 6:10. If we are going to pray for something, I feel we have the responsibility to know what we are praying for, don't you?

Yes, which doesn't make sense if God's will is already being done on the earth.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

According to the Catholic Church, the Second Vatican Council's "Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation" of 1965 states:





In other words, the Church teaches that the "will of God" is to unite mankind to Himself and deify us, that is share His Divine Nature with us through grace. This is known as the doctrine of theosis or divinization. This doctrine is fundamental to the teaching of the Church Fathers, who held that "God became man, so that man might become God" [St. Augustine, Sermo 13 de Tempore].

The entire purpose of the divine economy whereby the Son of God became incarnate was for the deification of man.

This was expressed quite simply by Saint Catherine of Genoa:

Yes, God's will is for to unite with Him in perfect love and unity.