What is God's Plan for Us?

[InChrist]

If god exists it is a an evil psycho!

What if you are wrong? What if God is truly good, loving and you are totally mistaken?

 

[Sand Dancer]

What if you are wrong? What if God is truly good, loving and you are totally mistaken?

Then we wouldn't have to have the Bible thrown in our faces all the time.

 

[Muffled]

I be

One thing that I've always had trouble accepting is that people who do not believe in the "true" religion will suffer in hell for eternity. I have been told that it's our choice: either we choose God or we choose to be apart from Him and we reap what we sow.

But if God is really all-knowing, then God should know the future. This means that God should be aware that billions of people will never choose his true religion, for various reasons. No matter how many signs or mercies God sends upon these people, they will not choose the true religion unless God hijacks their free will. So...why would God test people when He already knows who will be burning in hell forever? Why create people who He knows from the start will receive eternal damnation? Why is God so intent on receiving our worship when He doesn't actually benefit from it?

I have a hard time linking this with the concept of a loving God. Can someone please help me here?

l believe it means God is going to let people decide for themselves. He could enslave people but does not consider that a loving thing to do.

 

[Muffled]

If the future can be known, then we live in a deterministic universe. (No god required or excluded.)
In a deterministic universe there is no free will. (Not even a god would have free will.)
That is the primary contradiction in your thinking. You have to get rid of omniscience (determinism) or you have to get rid of "free will" (even the free will of your god). Without that decision you will turn in circles forever.

I believe knowing is not determination. I know how to play football but that does not determine that I will play it.

 

[Muffled]

If you start with a fallacy as premise, you will never know the truth.

I do not believe the premise is a fallacy and I believe in set theory the knowledge of the future falls with in the circle of knowing everything.

 

[Heyo]

I believe knowing is not determination. I know how to play football but that does not determine that I will play it.

When you claim to know how to play football, that's not the same as knowing the future.
Imagine that there is an entity that knows what you'll have for breakfast tomorrow. That means you are not able to decide otherwise, or, in other words, you don't have free will. If you could decide otherwise, it means that the entity didn't know the future.

 

[InChrist]

Then we wouldn't have to have the Bible thrown in our faces all the time.

Do you have the Bible thrown in your face all the time? And what specifically do mean by "the Bible thrown in our face all the time"?

 

[InChrist]

When you claim to know how to play football, that's not the same as knowing the future.
Imagine that there is an entity that knows what you'll have for breakfast tomorrow. That means you are not able to decide otherwise, or, in other words, you don't have free will. If you could decide otherwise, it means that the entity didn't know the future.

I don't see it that way. God, or an entity, knowing what you will have for breakfast tomorrow does not mean God chose for you, or you of your own volition, were unable to freely chose what to eat for breakfast. I don't see "knowing" as meaning "choosing".

 

[Heyo]

I don't see it that way. God, or an entity, knowing what you will have for breakfast tomorrow does not mean God chose for you, or you of your own volition, were unable to freely chose what to eat for breakfast. I don't see "knowing" as meaning "choosing".

I didn't say that knowing means choosing. It is simply a logic impossibility to have free will in a deterministic world. You can't have both. You can have neither or one but not both.
The only other option is to reject logic.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Do you have the Bible thrown in your face all the time? And what specifically do mean by "the Bible thrown in our face all the time"?

Fundy Christians try to make our country run by their view of Christianity and want favoritism.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That house was my childhood home. My late father used to shoot the rats which infested the place. However, that has nothing to do with the nonsense book of Revelation.

I wonder what is nonsense about Revelation 11:18 B
Man ruins Earth, but God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.
God will Not let things go to the point of having the Earth infested with wicked people.
Revelation reveals to us that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations, that is Not nonsense to me - Revelation 22:2

 

[InChrist]

I didn't say that knowing means choosing. It is simply a logic impossibility to have free will in a deterministic world. You can't have both. You can have neither or one but not both.
The only other option is to reject logic.

I disagree. From the biblical perspective anyway, God exists in an eternal realm outside of time and therefore sees past, present, and future of the time realm humans live within here on earth. So a person can make a completely free choice about what to eat for breakfast, which God observes and knows, yet without determining the choice of that person makes.

 

[InChrist]

Fundy Christians try to make our country run by their view of Christianity and want favoritism.

Do you mean Dominion, Kingdom Now type Christians, or do you mean all Christians?
Do you think all people should have freedom to voice their views in this country?
Do you think the Christians you refer to are the only people in this country who want favoritism?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

'Christianity', changes, morphs, I don't understand most christians, religiously, and that seems to be connected to non religious ideas. Some denominations don't seem 'religious', at all, and overall the concepts seem odd or attributing to strange ideas both concerning religion, and outside religion.
That being said, if one reads the Bible, they may not reach the same ideas as those.
Now, basically what this means is that many christians are practicing a type of pseudo-religion, which often contradicts direct ideas, in the Bible. I wouldn't call that 'fundamentalism', it's something else.

To me the ' something else ' is following false clergy 'traditions or customs' outside of Scripture but just being taught as being Scripture - Matthew 15:9
So, it is Not the Bible that morphs, but false clergy teachings.
Outside of the Biblical standard, what is right or wrong is simply a matter of comparison.
Thus, it is No wonder Jesus said MANY would prove false at Matthew 7:21-23.
At the coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth the MANY will be those figurative haughty 'goat'-like ones
- Matthew 25:31-33,37,40

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I disagree. From the biblical perspective anyway, God exists in an eternal realm outside of time and therefore sees past, present, and future of the time realm humans live within here on earth. So a person can make a completely free choice about what to eat for breakfast, which God observes and knows, yet without determining the choice of that person makes.

Your ^ above ^ post reminded me of Jeremiah 29:11; 31:3.
God thinks thoughts of peace and Not of calamity towards us.
The reason for His thinking is: to give us a future and a hope - Revelation 22:2
So, God does Not interfere with our personal choices, we are all free to act responsibly toward God.
The person himself makes the choice as will be exposed at the coming 'time of separation' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Do you mean Dominion, Kingdom Now type Christians, or do you mean all Christians?
Do you think all people should have freedom to voice their views in this country?
Do you think the Christians you refer to are the only people in this country who want favoritism?

Mostly the dominionist/reconstructionist types. Certainly the Christian Left is not interested in that. Voicing yes, but getting their religion the preferred one, no. I don't think other religions have that issue in the US currently.

 

[Heyo]

I disagree. From the biblical perspective anyway, God exists in an eternal realm outside of time and therefore sees past, present, and future of the time realm humans live within here on earth. So a person can make a completely free choice about what to eat for breakfast, which God observes and knows, yet without determining the choice of that person makes.

Let's take it step by step to see where exactly we disagree.
1. A deterministic universe is a universe where nothing is random. from any known state every step leads to one and only one other knowable state. Do we agree on that definition?
2. Free will is the ability to choose from any known state to take one of multiple steps to the next state. Do we agree on that definition?
3. A deterministic universe (one and only one possible step to the next) is incompatible with free will (multiple possible steps). There is no possible logical way to disagree on that conclusion. Do we agree?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mostly the dominionist/reconstructionist types. Certainly the Christian Left is not interested in that. Voicing yes, but getting their religion the preferred one, no. I don't think other religions have that issue in the US currently.

I find Jesus is interested in quality over quantity.
This is why he said MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false as per Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 25:31-33,37,40
So, at the coming ' time of separating ' on Earth the figurative humble 'sheep'-like people will be in the less category.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Fundy Christians try to make our country run by their view of Christianity and want favoritism.

Even back in the 80's Pres. Reagan saw the 'potential to push' by paying ' lip service ' to the fundies.
After all, the USA operates as a free religious marketplace or a religious melting pot.
The 'fundie' vote would just help him to win the vote, but Not make their moral agenda.
I suppose they have Not learned anything from the past 40 years______________

 

[Bird123]

One thing that I've always had trouble accepting is that people who do not believe in the "true" religion will suffer in hell for eternity. I have been told that it's our choice: either we choose God or we choose to be apart from Him and we reap what we sow.

But if God is really all-knowing, then God should know the future. This means that God should be aware that billions of people will never choose his true religion, for various reasons. No matter how many signs or mercies God sends upon these people, they will not choose the true religion unless God hijacks their free will. So...why would God test people when He already knows who will be burning in hell forever? Why create people who He knows from the start will receive eternal damnation? Why is God so intent on receiving our worship when He doesn't actually benefit from it?

I have a hard time linking this with the concept of a loving God. Can someone please help me here?

It's good to see that you question. Clearly what mankind is teaching does not add up. Religion is a creation of mankind. There is no true religion. I have found no religion that really understands God.

If one wants to understand God, one need only study God's actions which are all around us.

AS I see it, you have nothing to worry about. Give the world nothing but Unconditional Love and you will make leaps forward.