What is God's definition of sin?

[URAVIP2ME]

Yeah...
The Biblical God does have a thing for punishing children for the sins of their parents.
So you agree that your all knowing god intentionally set man up to fail with the OT?
I wonder why god felt the need to go through all the OT in order to send himself as his son so he can be killed in order to satisfy the requirements he set up in the first place....
Yeah, God seems to have a problem making up his mind just how people are to get to heaven.
Again with the punishing the children for the sins of the parents.
I never did understand why one must be possessed by spirits in order to get into heaven.
So as long as the serial killer has received the holy spirit then they get a free pass into heaven and are not going to be judged by their works?

Unless a serial killer has truly repented and turned around his life and dedicated his life to God that is unlikely to happen.

The living people of Matthew 25vs32 are judged by their works and on the basis of how they treated Jesus spiritual 'brothers' of verse 40. With the exception of those committing the unforgivable sin [Mt12v32;Heb6vs4-6]
those resurrected dead will be judged by the works they do 'after' they are resurrected during Jesus millennial reign over earth. -Acts 24v15

Doesn't Ezekiel 18v20 say the son will Not bear the sins of the father and visa versa? Doesn't 2nd Chronicles 25v4 say each man will die for his own sin?
Fathers will Not die for children and children will Not die for fathers.

The OT allowed time for people to be born, and as Scriptures say for God to send his Son. There is no Scripture that says God sent himself.
Just as there is no Scripture that says Jesus resurrected himself but that God resurrected Jesus.

The requirement in Eden was disobedience means death.
Adam disobeyed. Adam died.
Since Adam could only sin or disobey on purpose that is different for us.
We can sin and disobey by mistake, not on purpose like Adam.
Sin and disobedience still mean death.
If we could stop sinning we would not die.
We can not stop sinning so we die.
Even at the birth of a child a parent knows the child's leanings will be toward human imperfection.

Also the requirement in Eden was to multiply and fill [populate] the earth.
Time was needed for that to happen. Also remember the 7th day is God rest day or resting from creative works. Adam chose independence from God's guidance and direction. God does not interfere with Adam's choice except when absolutely necessary. The world today is the result of Adam's choice.
[Deut 4v16; 30v19; 32v5;1st Kings 18v21]

Simply put if God did not allow A&E to have children we would not be here.
We are part of God's purpose for the earth to have humans inhabit earth.

Since Adam, as our family head, put us in the predicament we are in we are not responsible. Since we sin we die. We can not resurrect oneself or another so we need a Messiah a Deliverer to do that for us.
Jesus being perfect could pay the price for what Adam did thus Jesus opens the way up for mankind [except Mt12v32] to be resurrected to either heaven or earth.

As for those still living or still alive at the time Jesus takes action, those living sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32 can remain alive and keep on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth with the prospect of never dying but remaining alive forever on earth gaining everlasting life on a paradisaic earth.

 

[McBell]

Deu 23:2 A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

so much for Ezkiel...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Deu 23:2 A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
so much for Ezkiel...

Deut was written not by Ezekiel but Moses about the judicial decisions under the Mosaic law. This was not about the Christian congregation. Having a part of the Israelite congregation was meant also in a court or legal sense of a decision of inheritance within the congregation. Please notice besides verse 2 at verse 3 the Ammonites and Moabites were also included part of that tenth generation, but those of verse 7 the Edomites and Egyptians could enter or be a part of the congregation in their third generation. This had noting to do with sins of the father but more of a court ruling or judicial decision for legal matters such as inheritance.

 

[jtartar]

What is God's definition of sin?

If we look in scripture, God says that sin is breaking His law.
"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

So what does this mean, what does scripture identify as His law? Is sin breaking God's Ten Commandment law, and since the law of God is perfect (Psalms 19:7), does it need changing? Or do the Commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13.

If they cover the whole duty of man, what do they tell us to do. If we look at them carefully we see the Commandments in the first four show love for God, the next six show love for our fellowman. So lets see how Christ explains it:

The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it:'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Thus was Christ covering all 10 when asked about them...

Naples,
A sagacious question!! This is more than most would ever imagine.
You have stated what a sin is by quoting from the Bible. 1John 3:4 and 5:17 state almost he same principle, that unrighteousness and lawlessness is sin. The term righteous means to obey the Law of God.
Here is where your question is far more than you probably thought.
Most people today, believe that we are under The Mosaic Law Covenant. It was impossible for the Jews to obey the Mosaic Law COMPLETELY, Acts 15:10. The Bible tells us that if we break one of the laws we have broken ALL the Law Covenant, James 2:10, Gal 3:10, 5:3. We are told that the wages sin PAYS is Death, Rom 6:23. The Mosaic Law condemned all under it, to death, Gal 3:11, 2Cor 3:6,7. The Law made no one perfect, Heb 9:9, 10:1. The Mosaic Law condemned to death, this is why Jesus came to do away with the curse of Mosaic Law Covenant, Gal 3:10-14, Rom 7:4-6, 8:2-5.
Jesus instituted The New Covenant, on the night before his death, Luke 22:17-20, 1Cor 11:23-26. The Mosaic Law Covenant was not meant to last forever, Jere 31:31-34. It was to last only until the Messiah would come, who was Jesus, Gal 3:19-25. The Mosaic Law Covenant and the New Coivenant are spoken of at Heb 8:6-13, which shows the superiority of the New Covenant, and the superceding of the old law, sa it became OBSOLETE, Heb 8:13, Heb 10:14-18.
There are several laws that are the same as the Mosaic Law Covenant, these are REITERATED in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Notice that the Laws that we are now under are much better than the Mosaic Law. These laws are POSITIVE laws; we must DO, Matt 7:12, The Golden rule!! The Mosaic Law was mostly DO NOt DO!!
Notice that Jesus said that the whole Mosaic Law was fulfiulled in just two laws, Matt 22:36-40. Paul said the same thing, Rom 13:8-10.
James tells us that when we know what is right and we do not do it it is a sin, James 4:17. Paul said that we should be honest in all things, Heb 13:13, that we should not lie, Eph 4:15, 25.
We must obey the Governmental authorities as long as they do not go against God's Laws, Rom 13:1-7, Acts 5:29.
To sum up: we must study God's word to make sure we are obeying His commandments for Christians, Gal 6:2, James 2:8,9, "Rom 12:2",1Per 4:15-19.

 

[McBell]

Deut was written not by Ezekiel but Moses about the judicial decisions under the Mosaic law. This was not about the Christian congregation. Having a part of the Israelite congregation was meant also in a court or legal sense of a decision of inheritance within the congregation. Please notice besides verse 2 at verse 3 the Ammonites and Moabites were also included part of that tenth generation, but those of verse 7 the Edomites and Egyptians could enter or be a part of the congregation in their third generation. This had noting to do with sins of the father but more of a court ruling or judicial decision for legal matters such as inheritance.

Had nothing to do with the sins of the father?
Talk about being in denial.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Had nothing to do with the sins of the father?
Talk about being in denial.

What is denial about Ezekiel 18v20 that the son will Not bear the sins of the father?

What is denial about 2nd Chronicles 25v4 that neither will children die for their fathers?

However, even today a parent's sins can affect their child through transmitted sexual sins, or drug abuse sins, or even fetal alcohol syndrome from excessive drinking sins that can even leave ill effects on the children's children.

 

[McBell]

What is denial about Ezekiel 18v20 that the son will Not bear the sins of the father?

What is denial about 2nd Chronicles 25v4 that neither will children die for their fathers?

However, even today a parent's sins can affect their child through transmitted sexual sins, or drug abuse sins, or even fetal alcohol syndrome from excessive drinking sins that can even leave ill effects on the children's children.

A child born out of wedlock is not allowed in the church because he was born out of wedlock.
Please explain to me how it was the childs fault he was born out of wedlock.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A child born out of wedlock is not allowed in the church because he was born out of wedlock.
Please explain to me how it was the childs fault he was born out of wedlock.

Good question, however it was Not the child's fault.
The adult people had agreed to the Constitution of the Mosaic law.
They agreed to abide by its laws.
They knew fornicators and adulterers were to be put to death.
The law was read to them and they were aware of its consequences.
Even before the Law Joseph's actions in Genesis showed how God viewed immorality.

The family arrangement was straightforward.
Breakdown of that family arrangement was not acceptable.

Although all could not be part of the congregation that did not mean God did not favor all repentant ones in some way.

We are not under the Mosaic law since Pentecost after Jesus death.
And according to 1st Cor. [6v11a] the 'past' tense is used:
"And that is what some of you 'were' ".....
All repentant people can in someway be a part of the Christian congregation.
Some to even serve as judges according to verses 2,3.

We were all bought with a price [Jesus], and all should practice being moral.
1st Cor 6vs18-20; 7vs22,23.

Now is the time for all repentant ones to look forward, look up, lift up one's head because as Luke [21v28] wrote deliverance is near to the time for the end of all badness on earth. Regardless of birth circumstances only genuinely repentant ones will be part of the beginning of Jesus millennial reign over earth with the prospect of living forever on a paradisaic earth.
Matthew 25v32,37.

 

[McBell]

Good question,

I agree.
Perhaps you could explain how this is not the child being punished for the sins of the parent.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree.
Perhaps you could explain how this is not the child being punished for the sins of the parent.

If the parent-to-be was Not given the death penalty for their immorality the child was not put to death. Children born out of wedlock were not put to death.
Then not allowed to be part of the congregation in ancient Israel to you is viewed as punishment, but the person was still alive, and will have the same future opportunity as Acts [24v15] says, a resurrection of the righteous or unrighteous. [unrighteous does not mean evil]

The purpose of the law was to lead to Christ as the Messiah.
There was a set standard to be met.
We know a repentant person such as Rahab became an ancestress of Jesus.
We know how God viewed the immoral situation between David and Bath-Sheba.

During Jesus millennial reign over earth [except for those of Matt 12v32]
all of the dead according to Romans [6v7] are freed or acquitted of sin.
David and Bath-Sheba will see and have the return of their firstborn son.
Those that were not part of the congregation of ancient Israel will also be resurrected, and have the same opportunity for living forever on a paradisaic earth when death will be no more- Rev 21vs4,5.
As verse 5 says God will make all things new. So we will have a new earthly society where righteousness will dwell. All that want to obey God will be there not only for Jesus thousand year reign, but with the prospect of living forever on earth under righteous conditions.
So besides a heavenly hope for those of Rev [5vs9,10v20v6] there is an earthly hope for the majority of mankind when former things [Isaiah 65v17] will not be called to mind.

 

[McBell]

If the parent-to-be was Not given the death penalty for their immorality the child was not put to death. Children born out of wedlock were not put to death.
Then not allowed to be part of the congregation in ancient Israel to you is viewed as punishment, but the person was still alive, and will have the same future opportunity as Acts [24v15] says, a resurrection of the righteous or unrighteous. [unrighteous does not mean evil]

you MIGHT have a point here if death was the only punish god ever commanded.
But the fact is that god had all manner of punishments.
So your point falls flat on its face.

There was a set standard to be met.

ANd yet children born out of wedlock, through absolutely no fault of their own, had no chance to meet this set standard.
And you would like to think that it was not a punishment.

 

[saltandlight]

Dear Orias,
I think you are mistaken that God is satanic, because if He was, then how can Satan be Satan? Also, He loves His creation, and I believe He would want Satan to repent, but the time for that has passed eons ago, and Satan had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit as Satan said in His heart that He would rise above God Himself and become like Him. He was the cause of sin. I believe because the angels of heaven all had free will, many fell, and followed Satan to rule the physical realm, until Jesus came. But because mankind is made in the image of God, Satan hates us, he hates our very souls, and he is jealous because he wanted to be like God. Please do not be deceived by him, and know that there is God who loves and forgives and wants all to repent and to find their hope and salvation in His Son, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 14:13 (New International Version)


13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [a]


Dialogue on Satan's fall.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+15:19&version=NIVEzekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

you MIGHT have a point here if death was the only punish god ever commanded.
But the fact is that god had all manner of punishments.
So your point falls flat on its face.
ANd yet children born out of wedlock, through absolutely no fault of their own, had no chance to meet this set standard.
And you would like to think that it was not a punishment.

Weren't all manner of punishments because of the person himself getting into trouble? Punishment to fit the crime. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life.
The illegitimate committed no crime and were not sentenced for crime.

If the fornicating parents married the unborn was not considered illegitimate.
Ancient Israel was set apart from the other nations including for religious purposes. The law was regulated thus the nation was a congregation of God.
So the membership to that nation included rules and regulations.
Exception to that membership were illegitimate sons.
That upheld the law against adultery.
Although excluded from the congregation did not mean that provisions and blessings, that even included people of the nations, would not be there for them. They were apparently more or less in the same boat as the people of the nations. People of the nations were given hope [Gen22vs15-18] and that hope was there for the illegitimate.
So the verses under the law about punishment was specifically directed for those 'within' the congregation and not outside of it.

Why couldn't anyone [in or out of the congregation or nation] meet God's standards such as trying to live by the Golden Rule?

In a sense God commanded death, but remember if we could stop sinning we would not die. It is sin that causes death. When we die we can not resurrect oneself or another we need someone to do that for us. Jesus being perfect could remain sinless if wanted and he did. So his death balanced the scales of justice. Life for life. Adam had a perfect human life to start with.
Jesus had a perfect human life and ended with it.
That way Jesus faithfulness could pay the asking price of sin [which is death] and offer us the opportunity to be brought back to life. This includes those within and without the ancient congregation or nation of ancient Israel.

 

[Orias]

Dear Orias,
I think you are mistaken that God is satanic, because if He was, then how can Satan be Satan?

Satan literally means Opposition, or Advesary. God is in Opposition to Satan, therefore he is Satanic. That's just like asking if left is left because it's a square. There is no relevance to the situation, just perceptions that have been deemed 'Holy' and 'Unholy'. God created everything right? So he created 'evil' and 'good' yet within is own malignance and sadism he lets it contiue on. That sounds rather 'Satanic' (human) to me.

Also, He loves His creation, and I believe He would want Satan to repent, but the time for that has passed eons ago, and Satan had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit as Satan said in His heart that He would rise above God Himself and become like Him.

How has Satan 'blashpemed' against the 'Holy Spirit'? Such Theism surely leads to trifle beyond healing.

How can one tie a God within spirituality? If your God is so powerful he would not let this be so, it seems that 'Satan's' compitence is beyond divinity. This is clear simply because the Nature of our ways and the complexity of our minds lets these beings be. In order for God to have created and manipulate a Nature, a Nature would have to have already been. Natural Willpower deems your God unworthy, as even you cannot speak of what is after death.

He was the cause of sin.

I beg to differ. God is the cause of all sin, as he created everything. All sin is, is simply living life. Like we had the choice to be brought into existence, and simply because we do what we know. Life is all that we truly do know, as Life is all we experience. Sin is innevitable as Original Sin is existence itself.

I believe because the angels of heaven all had free will, many fell, and followed Satan to rule the physical realm, until Jesus came. But because mankind is made in the image of God, Satan hates us, he hates our very souls, and he is jealous because he wanted to be like God. Please do not be deceived by him, and know that there is God who loves and forgives and wants all to repent and to find their hope and salvation in His Son, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 14:13 (New International Version)

First of all, prove that such souls exist. Know that there is a God who loves and forgives? What about all of the other God's? If your God created everything, then why does he deny and Oppose all other Gods?

13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [a]


Dialogue on Satan's fall.


Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Realize mercy shown, is not always mercy given.

As mercy is not truth.

Not one perception is better than another,nor does one justify the means of another. Simply because that is what they are, perceptions.

Realize, man's fate is united. No matter, king, slave, prophet, you will all die.

You said do not let Satan deceive you, yet do you know who you are? Or does scripture dictate your life as well? Answer wisely, as this may be the very undoing of your own 'faith'.