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What is Faith?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Pah, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I was told by a Christian that faith and belief were two different things - that belief was a precursor to faith. Belief was determined by a logical process and acceptance of the result of that process.

    As these are general definitions, they do not address truth. For one can have faith in a false God, one can have faith in a “true” God but surround the God with heretical or false dogma and creed and one can have faith in a pure essence of God. Faith in Gods is also possible as is the faith of there being no God or Gods.

    I think we are all looking for the truth of a faith and we all are subject to error along the way.
     
  2. Alaric

    Alaric Active Member

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    Well said!
    Faith is a belief in which you don't allow for the idea that you could be wrong; you choose to have total commitment to what you believe. Belief is just when you think something is some way for whatever reason, which could change if you're given more information.

    I think it's an interesting discussion about when faith is okay - for example, a child must have faith in its parents; it can't live its first years second-guessing everything they ask it to do. Likewise, we need to live our lives assuming many things to be a certain way - we don't take precautions against key parts of our lives being hallucinations, for example. Faith may be a risk worth taking, allowing you to do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to do. However, faith can and often does mean that you can behave immorally without realising it. If you have faith that you have special powers to see demons disguised as humans, then you would get a lot of demon killing done if you're right, but if you're wrong, you are a murderer; but if you simply believe that you have the powers, without the faith, then you cannot act, because you acknowledge that fact that you might be wrong and so could not morally justify your actions. Anyone read Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling?
     
  3. quick

    quick Member

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    Faith is that attribute of human beings that enables them to do every single thing they do.

    For example, you want to walk across the street. You've done so before, but that was before. You want to do so now. You do so only if you have faith that your legs will work as they have done before; that your eyes will be able to detect oncoming cars; that the road will not collapse; etc.

    Faith is based upon a certain element of reasonableness and consistency in our world.

    Christians know, for example, that a loving God does not change physical laws on a whim, as was the case, for example, in Greek mythology. Even Christ, when he performed miracles, always performed acts of regeneration. He never, for example, said, "See that tree? I will make if fly from the ground and fly into the ocean." His miracles rather sought to heal the brokeness sin has brought into the world--death, illness, waste, scarcity, lostness. This consistency of God enabled Christians to begin modern science in Europe, as when one understands the constancy of God, one can appreciate that physcial laws, once discovered, will not change on the whim of deity. One can then have faith in these physical laws.

    We all live by faith. Many of us just do not realize it.
     
  4. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Nope! Your muscles work from an autonomic nervous system - no faith involved there. The belief (not faith) that the road will not crumble is based on the observance of data (by the eyes and of course, that is autonomious too) and a calculation that there appears to be no danger. Faith plays almost no role in physical day to day living - it is reserved for the acceptance of things not provable by any other means.

    And don't forget the indoctrination you receive from so many sources.

    The history of the Church is full of inconsistency. Abortion and gay marriage were once part of the Church's permissible acts. Clergy marries - clergy doesn't marry. Women can not be clerical - women are ordained. Penances change or are eliminated. Any, ANY work of man is inconsistent throughout history

    Of course God changes physical law many places in the bible- you call them miracles and it was a whim to make a point.. I think even one time he stopped the rotation of the earth

    Belief maybe, but certainly there is no need for faith for so many of us.
     
  5. quick

    quick Member

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    You are a master at selective quotation, paraphrase and spin. You must be a politician.

    We all live by faith. Period. You have to have faith that your muscles will continue to twitch as they did the day before. It is not unreasonable to have this faith--faith is a belief based upon reasonable evidence--but it is definitely faith.

    As to you selective misuse and abuse of the Bible, I just grow tired. Maybe you've not been made aware that the age of revelation is over. Oh, nevermind.

    Have a nice day.
     
  6. harold e. rice

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    Faith is the enemy of knowledge
     
  7. Gunnard

    Gunnard Member

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    Indiana Jones and the last crusade, aw man that part where he steps onto
    that invisible bridge, now that looked like faith if I ever saw it.

    Okay, back to the real world. Now I have this question, would my faith in a god be better started off like "I'm going to have faith in you today so please don't let me down" or should I let the faith in him just slowly trickle into my mind so it turns into a daily thing over the years and eventually not need the faith anymore so it becomes automatic?

    I want to make it so automatic in my mind as to block out any differing
    ideas in this area, buts its too late I already block out religious ideas so I'm biased. That got me thinking, Thinking about how small of an impact I let peoples words place on me. Everybody controls how much contridictory
    information they let into heads as to not go completely insane.
    Even if what they believe isn't logical.
     
  8. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Again you refuse to think outside the box. Of course you live by faith. You must have faith that your calculation is accurate. I go to bed every night knowing that I'll wake up in the morning because it's happened that way for the past twenty-three years, but I'm well aware that it could all end in a heartbeat. Why don't I shiver in fear? Because I believe; and that's what faith is: a belief in something you can't see. Everything is faith. Absolutely everything. Atheists have just as much faith as the most devout Christian, their faith is just in something else. Every scientist has faith that his instruments are correct, that laws will continue to operate as they have, that their eyes do not deceive them. We all practice faith every day, it's just a matter of preference. Think outside the box, y'all.
     
  9. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    That's okay if you think I'm inside a box. There are different boxes for different people

    Given my medical condition, I don't live by faith that I will wake in the morning nor that the next monent will arive until it does. Given my state of health, there is no concern that the road will crumple for I may die even while evaluating external risk. I am telling you I do not have faith and I can not see why other people must, of necessity, have the kind of faith you say we should.

    You should re-read the OP becuase I make a distinction between faith and belief and what you seem to be saying is confined to belief. What I've said in response to your posts have used faiith because that is what you used, but be aware, that belief is what is limited in my life and there is no faith at all.

    I would appreciate if you would not place me in your box.
     
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