What is Faith?

[lunamoth]

Faith is often discussed on this board, so I thought I would start a thread that discusses what faith means. I took the following from The Heart of Christianity by Marcus Borg.

Which of the meanings of faith do you most identify with?

Four Meanings of Faith (M. Borg, The Heart of Christianity, pp. 28 - 37)

1. Faith as Assensus - giving one's mental assent to a proposition. Believing a claim or statement is true. 1) Orthodoxy - important to believe in the 'right' things as opposed to the 'wrong' things. 2) This view gained prominence during the Enlightenment, which identified truth with factuality. From Christian perspective, leads to the conclusion that God cares that we 'believe the right things.'

2. Faith as Fiducia -faith as trust. Not trusting in a particular set of statements about God, but trusting in God. "Faith is trusting in the sea of being in which we live and move and have our being." Opposite would be anxiety.

3. Faith as Fidelita - loyalty, faithfulness to our relationship with God. Being attentive to God and God's covenant by worship, prayer, practice, and a life of compassion and justice.

4. Faith as Visio - worldview; how we see the whole. Borg offers that we can choose among three ways to see the whole of our existence in the universe. First, see reality as hostile or threatening (can be expressed by the view held by some Christians that God is going to judge and punish us if we don't get it 'right.'). Second, to perceive the whole as indifferent to human purposes and ends (most common secular viewpoint; can be accompanied by the strong aesthetic of caring deeply for one's world and humanity). Third, to view 'what is' as life-giving and nourishing; expressed sometimes as trust in God's providence. Generates a willingness to 'spend and be spent;' for the sake of a vision that goes beyond ourselves. It is not based on a demonstration that reality is nice; rather it is the point that how we see reality affects how we experience and live our lives.


Borg goes on to describe the first form of trust to one 'of the head' and the following three as 'of the heart,' or relational. He sums this section by acknowledging that we cannot easily give our hearts to something that our head rejects, and by the Christian beliefs, or creeds, have roots in the meaning, 'I give my heart to.' Faith is about beloving God and all that God beloves, loving God and our neighbors.

 

[Magic Man]

It depends. There are several definitions of faith. Generally when speaking of faith in God, the definition is "belief without evidence".

 

[Storm]

It depends. There are several definitions of faith. Generally when speaking of faith in God, the definition is "belief without evidence".

According to whom?

 

[Magic Man]

According to whom?

According to the fact that that's how it's used. When people say they have faith in God, it's generally" I don't need evidence; I have faith".

 

[Storm]

According to the fact that that's how it's used.

Hardly a compelling argument, love.

When people say they have faith in God, it's generally" I don't need evidence; I have faith".

That hasn't been my experience.

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi luna

Which of the meanings of faith do you most identify with?

This one

4. Faith as Visio - worldview; how we see the whole. ... to view 'what is' as life-giving and nourishing; ..it is the point that how we see reality affects how we experience and live our lives.

I also think faith isn't about what I believe. I see it as about how I live and how I am.

 

[bobhikes]

Faith = confident belief in truth, value or trustworthiness of a person idea or thing.

 

[Magic Man]

Hardly a compelling argument, love.

OK, but that's how it's used, as I showed.

That hasn't been my experience.

Then you must have a very different experience from mine and many others on here. That's generally the use of the word.

Of course, I'm probably just going to have to give up. I've said what needs to be said, but I also understand that people are going to continue to equivocate mainly because they like their faith.

 

[Willamena]

2. Faith as Fiducia -faith as trust. Not trusting in a particular set of statements about God, but trusting in God. "Faith is trusting in the sea of being in which we live and move and have our being." Opposite would be anxiety.

3. Faith as Fidelita - loyalty, faithfulness to our relationship with God. Being attentive to God and God's covenant by worship, prayer, practice, and a life of compassion and justice.

Either of these would do. I had not actually considered (before your post here) the relationship of the root 'faith' to faithfulness, but it makes sense that trust is at the root of loyalty. I chose the root.

Edit: Mind, I'm not religious, so I don't identify with faith as a worldview.

 

[Storm]

OK, but that's how it's used, as I showed.

Then you must have a very different experience from mine and many others on here. That's generally the use of the word.

Of course, I'm probably just going to have to give up. I've said what needs to be said, but I also understand that people are going to continue to equivocate mainly because they like their faith.

Faith is one of those words where if you ask 5 people what it means, you'll get 50 answers. To cherry-pick one, incidentally the most easily dismissed, is somewhat less than honest.

 

[Magic Man]

Faith is one of those words where if you ask 5 people what it means, you'll get 50 answers. To cherry-pick one, incidentally the most easily dismissed, is somewhat less than honest.

The problem is that people equivocate all of them. Sure, in some situations the word means different things, but in the religious sense, it has one particular definition, but people want to blend that with others. That's what's dishonest. Trying to keep it to the relevant definition is not dishonest. The reason the one I've brought up is the most easily dismissed is that people don't like it. They like their faith, and they like to think of it poetically because that helps soften the reality that all it is is belief without evidence.

 

[Willamena]

Faith is one of those words where if you ask 5 people what it means, you'll get 50 answers. To cherry-pick one, incidentally the most easily dismissed, is somewhat less than honest.

Yeah, but that makes Matt's cherry no better or worse than any one else's.

 

[bobhikes]

Yeah, but that makes Matt's cherry no better or worse than any one else's.

No his definition is paraphrased and missing some major parts. Here is the actual definition.

Faith belief without logical proof or material evidence

He always leaves out logical proof or material evidence.

What about mental evidence, or observed evidence. There is a lot of evidence you can use and still qualify as belief.

I have never seen it in any dictionary as just belief without evidence.

 

[Magic Man]

No his definition is paraphrased and missing some major parts. Here is the actual definition.

Faith belief without logical proof or material evidence

He always leaves out logical proof or material evidence.

What about mental evidence, or observed evidence. There is a lot of evidence you can use and still qualify as belief.

I have never seen it in any dictionary as just belief without evidence.

I'm neither paraphrasing nor missing anything. I'm using a simple, concise and accurate definition.

As we went over in another thread, evidence needs to be consistent. If you accept it as evidence in one instance, you need to accept it in other instances. That's why evidence needs to be limited to objective, verifiable evidence.

 

[Willamena]

I have never seen it in any dictionary as just belief without evidence.

The thread asks what meaning of faith we most identify with, and that's the one Matt chose.

 

[Walkntune]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
It is the one universal substance that permeates through all of creation and when one becomes in harmony with the universe they operate in this substance called faith.It is how intuition is driven and inspired and how the trials and tribulations in life our challenged and overcome.We know reality is altered and is not what it appears to be in the moment as we are faced with trials and tribulation that we hold on to and only see consciously.Release your resistance and reality has no alternative but to change as well.It is not our challenges that take us down but our resistance to them that becomes the real enemy.Learn to operate in faith and be in harmony.

 

[bobhikes]

I'm neither paraphrasing nor missing anything. I'm using a simple, concise and accurate definition.

As we went over in another thread, evidence needs to be consistent. If you accept it as evidence in one instance, you need to accept it in other instances. That's why evidence needs to be limited to objective, verifiable evidence.

I'm glad you have faith in your definition.

 

[Willamena]

1. Faith as Assensus - giving one's mental assent to a proposition. Believing a claim or statement is true. 1) Orthodoxy - important to believe in the 'right' things as opposed to the 'wrong' things. 2) This view gained prominence during the Enlightenment, which identified truth with factuality. From Christian perspective, leads to the conclusion that God cares that we 'believe the right things.'

At first, I saw this as belief rather than faith. As I see it, faith is a type of belief but with a particular condition, being that the thing believed in is notably, presently lacking, hence the translation to 'trust'. If, then, I'm to take this in terms of faith as I understand it, I am looking at a proposition about something that is notably, presently lacking. But I'm not sure it's intended to be taken that way.

 

[Willamena]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

I like that more, every time I read it. Whoever wrote it was a marvellous poet.

 

[lunamoth]

The thread asks what meaning of faith we most identify with, and that's the one Matt chose.

I agree. He seems to go strictly with faith as assensus, intellectual assent, although no one has selected that choice yet in the poll.