McBell
Resident Sourpuss
then toss it out the window the second it gets you to god
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
'but nothing just pops into thin air. If that be the case, things will still be popping up like a sci-fi movie.
but reality doesn't come from anywhere. It just is with or without us existing to define it's purpose. Also, what moves everything according to science is not spirit it's energy. Humans call it spirit (consciousness or whatever) because maybe energy is too isolated of a term and spirit is more personal, I don't know. Though, if I just talked about reality without assigning religious words to it, it's just energy. Without religious words, where would you think everything comes from according to science not religion? (not spirit, god, or anything like that)
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I agree...nothing just pops into existence'but nothing just pops into thin air. If that be the case, things will still be popping up like a sci-fi movie.
Without religious words, where would you think everything comes from according to science not religion? (not spirit, god, or anything like that)
it went bang.....under the snap of God's fingers
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
it ? What went bang? Everything always existed.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
We all believe in something, if not God, then some sort of automated universe making machine- I see the former explanation as the least improbable, the most rational yes-
But whatever our beliefs, it is good to acknowledge them as such- faith- acting on beliefs we can't prove, there is no 'intellectually superior' or 'default' answer
Blind faith is faith which does not recognize itself
Thief
Rogue Theologian
in the beginning......
JesusBeliever
Active Member
Hi there, I'll start with your last question first.
I think of God most of the time with expectant hope that He'll invade my day, every day which sometimes He does and sometimes He doesn't.
I don't doubt His existence anymore but when He's quiet I get a bit worried that I might have done something wrong.
I believe in most of the stories of the Bible because I have experienced many of them.
And for this reason I've become convinced that's why they were written in the first place so that we all could know that we can walk with Him too just like they did. In fact, I'm inclined to say that He is already in everyone's lives, they just don't all know it yet.
As for rational reasons for believing there are many but I doubt sharing them would be of benefit to anyone.
Rather, I would encourage you to seek Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you and He will personally give you all of the rational reasons you need to believe.
Hope this helps!
Kind regards
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
What happened that would let you believe an entity (if thats your belief?) created the earth?
There is no beginning. Everything always existed. Nothing pops out of thin air.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
my sign?
The sign is yours until you can answer what caused god.
If you are going to stick to your "nothing caused god" dogma, then you do in fact throw cause and effect out the window the second it gets you to god.
Just like I said.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
No one can be sure, just live in peace and try to be a good person, it's the best religion
in the world, to be a good human.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
there wasn't any 'air'....in the beginning
let science take you to the singularity....then sit still and think about
that's all anyone can really do
substance is not 'self' starting
'Something' had to form it.....and then snap it into motion
Thief
Rogue Theologian
nay.....and the hall of mirror discussion doesn't work.....in the beginning
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
"out of thin air" is an idiom for popping out of no physical place on earth, on other planets, in universes, no where into our present space today.
Science doesn't tell me there is a first cause. It tells me everything evolves in a cycle. That we come and go as the ocean falls out and climbs back into itself. Just as the human is born, age, sickness, then we mentally become children, and physically pass away to where we were not born again. ..Women have their monthly moods. and the list goes on...
So, there is no first cause. Have you ever heard of Billy Joel's "We didn't start the fire?" Well, we didn't. The karma of people's actions as well as ours affects us today. The motions of the earth affects us. Everything affects us.
Think about this: If this isn't true, why would we say "god is eternal and he has no cause"? That is contradicting the laws of nature-either we have causes (which doesn't make sense), god included or we don't. We're all in a cycle. It's all reality.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
God created what we call nature.
Spirit first.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Spirit is another word for energy. What keeps us moving, breathing, and what makes us alive. Humans (I'm no a human is bad and god is good person) created the view of god and religious terms so they can relate to life and things they cannot understand. That is science-field of psychology or even sociology. It's coping skills with the unknown and so forth.
Take away the word god and spirit, what do you have left? The exact same thing you have with it. The laws of nature and definitions of god doesn't rely on us. When I see a cycle of life, I actually see the cycle of life. I actually see the affects one's actions have on another. I don't have to philosophize or make it abstract and religious by saying there is a spirit involved. It is what it is.
Now, can we be comfortable with just "let it be", I dont think many can. Hence why there needs to be a first cause. Needs to doesn't always mean it is true.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Then why are you so dogmatically stuck on the hall of smoke and mirrors discussion for the beginning?
What evidence is there for this God?
Without evidence of an actual personage, all we have is impersonal mechanics.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and God said to Moses....
tell the people ...IAM!.....and they with understanding will know whose law this is.
I think of God as having a personage