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Orbit
I'm a planet
I was raised Presbyterian, and no longer believe in the taken-literally anthropomorphic God as presented in the Bible. I see the Bible as reflecting the culture and beliefs of a certain period of history, which is why there are parts of it that conflict with science. Some of the Bible is history (the book of Kings), some is wisdom about the human condition (the book of Proverbs), some is advice on how to live a compassionate life (the Gospels), and some is mythology (Genesis). The Bible isn't rational or true, it's a product of cultural history and mythology. I still find parts of the Bible useful, but I'm no longer a Christian. I rejected Christianity as a religion, but I still think the teachings of Christ are valuable. You don't have to belong to a church to live your life by those ideals. You don't have to "believe in God" as defined by that religion to be a good person.
Sees
Dragonslayer
I don't think of faith in someone or something as an absolute or see it as having anything to do with X amount of evidence. There is always a reason/s for having trust in whatever.
Religion as history books we deem true or false isn't how I roll.
I believe in multiple Gods and an impersonal Divine source/energy/essence and really have no doubts about it.
It is more about perception than complete hit or miss. We translate experiences and interactions through ways that are as much about poetry, beauty, joy, passion, etc. as they are accuracy. It isn't bound to make as much sense to as many today as it once did - people are more distracted, detached, unaware.
Religion as history books we deem true or false isn't how I roll.
I believe in multiple Gods and an impersonal Divine source/energy/essence and really have no doubts about it.
It is more about perception than complete hit or miss. We translate experiences and interactions through ways that are as much about poetry, beauty, joy, passion, etc. as they are accuracy. It isn't bound to make as much sense to as many today as it once did - people are more distracted, detached, unaware.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Faith is just an invented religious term that accommodates a sense of nobility to what can be best described as a form of mindless irrationality as a means to an end.
I like using Franz Reichelt because he's a posterboy of faith imv.
Death Jump - Franz Reichelt jumps off the Eiffel …:
I like using Franz Reichelt because he's a posterboy of faith imv.
Death Jump - Franz Reichelt jumps off the Eiffel …:
Faith, to me, is a form of trust in something, in spite of all senses and sensibility saying it shouldn't be trusted. Therefore...
There can be no "faith", in the sense that I've given, if there are rational reasons for it.
I'm not entirely sure I understand. Are you asking if we believe that all the stories in our (presumably religious/mythological) books are actual accounts of things that literally happened? Because if so, absolutely not. Our Lore is a collection of largely oral traditions; by the time they got written down, they would have changed quite a bit from whatever historical events or persons (assuming there were any) may have originally inspired them.
However, because our Lore is oral, that also means it's organic and flexible. It doesn't matter whether they actually reflect historical events (unless that's what's being claimed by the storyteller), because it's more important that they reflect the culture telling the stories.
I'm just gonna translate "God" to "Gods", because I'm a polytheist.
I always doubt that non-physical Gods (that is, Gods that aren't physically present such as Sun, Moon, Earth, or human Gods like the Japanese Emperor) exist. But the thing is, it doesn't really matter to me if they do or not. They have meaning to me. That's what's important.
Again, translating to "Gods".
A lot. It's a fascinating topic.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
IMHO, just dig in self of yours, and ask certain questions and come at a specific answer.
The presence of God is felt. Through other means is believed too. Just reflect your own life's various critical times.
looking at all intelligent design of universe at all levels gives one rational reason for knowing there ought to a Maker. My religion takes me further to tell Who is That Maker.
My Book is Holy Quran, there are stories. I understand them in rational way. I know they are mentioned for future lessons.
No doubt, sure God exists.
Constant presence is felt.
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Chickie17
Member
Have to respectfully disagree, I think for most, faith is a part of being human. Many do not need it, however, with societies of varying levels of affluence and science having strong religious backgrounds, in addition to people who are educated, since the 1960s, being as likely or more likely than uneducated peers to identify with a religion (http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/the-myth-of-the-godless-university/375950/), (not counting the generational trend of young people being unaffiliated until their kids come along), many seem to inherently need it.
And why? A secular answer is that, at the very least, we have evolved such self-awareness that we question if this is all there is. If there is reason and reward for our behavior. If we can transcend our own instincts, day-to-day routine, to achieve a higher state of being. Because a life of transient pleasure and then nothingness seems like a cruel joke when we feel so much more.
Skwim
Veteran Member
That the notion of faith may have arisen from religion is quite possible; however, faith is by no means necessarily irrational. Is it rational to sit and the intersection of a four-way stop and wait until each and every car coming from the other directions, perhaps 27 cars in all, has gone through, or is it more rational to have faith that once your turn comes up to go through the intersection the other cars will recognize your rightful turn and allow you to proceed without T-boning you? How do you operate in such situations?
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Skwim
Veteran Member
What is belief then?
I believe that tomorrow a plane will crash in the Peruvian Andes.
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Orbit
I'm a planet
A belief is a proposition subjectively held to be true, which may or may not be objectively provable as true and correct.
Skwim
Veteran Member
If you're answering for Valjean, then I have to ask you how this differs from a proposition subjectively held without sufficient evidence, essentially his definition of faith.
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Orbit
I'm a planet
Faith is belief without proof or evidence. Belief is a closely related concept, a synonym.
Skwim
Veteran Member
"Closely related" still denotes a difference. Care to tell us what you believe this is?
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Orbit
I'm a planet
Belief refers to a proposition you hold; faith refers to your acceptance of a proposition without proof.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I see faith as having complete uncontestable confidence for which in one's mind, something will, as opposed to just maybe, meet expectations.
I don't have faith crossing intersections, for which each and every time I do so, will be regarded as being completely incident free every single time.
Rather, it's a conditional trust with a realisation that nothing at all is guaranteed, as I do so, for which a cautionary approach is taken as opposed to a blind sense of confidence that nothing will happen.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Your description of faith here ⬆ comes off as a transitive verb (accepting), which doesn't square at all with your claim that "Faith is belief . . . . " Belief being a noun (proposition) as you indicate here ⬆. Just saying.
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