What is an authentic Christian?

[F1fan]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

According to every Christian I talked to all the other Christians that exist aren't "authentic" Christians. Christianity appears to be an auto-religion, and can only be evaluated by the person you asking. So, basically, if the person calls himself a Christian, then he is Christian. That's the only way I think most people can measure things like this. What Christianity means will differ between each person, Christian or not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

Well if it does then Jesus was judgmental.

."The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

There's always been fake Christians. How to recognize them?

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

 

[Secret Chief]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

Is this the same as the no true Scotsman idea?

 

[sun rise]

@Wildswanderer posted my idea. I'll add the section of the Sermon no the Mount:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

 

[ChristineM]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

There are around 2.4 billion christians schizmed into close on 50,000 different sects of Christianity (a number that grows weekly). Each one saying their interpretation of their chosen version (from over 200 different versions) of the bible. Each sect saying saying their sect observes the true Christianity. And any sect that is even closely different from their own are not true christians.

Is their rejection of other Christians judgemental... You bet it is

 

[exchemist]

Well if it does then Jesus was judgmental.

."The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

There's always been fake Christians. How to recognize them?

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Except this is not Jesus judging, but some individual with questionable authority.

On the question of imperfect individuals judging others, I might also refer to the Sermon on the Mount, esp. Matthew 7:1.

 

[PureX]

What is an "authentic" rock star?

My point is that this kind of question demands a very specific criteria for assessing a very non-specific phenomenon. A "Christian" is someone that is choosing to adhere to the ideals represented by "Christ". Simple, and specific. But what is "Christ"? And what ideals does this "Christ" represent for the adherent? The answers to those questions are going to be varied and very subjective. Expecting otherwise would be foolish. So when we ask this kind of question, we need to be specific about what we're asking if we expect to get a specific answer. And that's going to depend on who we are asking.

 

[exchemist]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

Yes, and of poor Christianity too, ironically.

Christianity is a religion for imperfect human beings, "sinners". It is unfair to try to divide people into "true" and fake" Christians (unless, I suppose, you know their beliefs and behaviour exceptionally well, as individuals, and are in a position to pronounce on whether they adhere to the basic beliefs that define a Christian).

There can be, as in all groups that human beings form, a tendency to make them an exclusive club or tribe, to which only a few virtuous or lucky people are admitted (invariably including the speaker, of course.) The Christian gospels are chock full of warnings about this way of thinking, often using the example of "Pharisees" etc who were said to fancy themselves more virtuous than others when in fact they were not.

"Exclusivist" Christianity is on the whole to be deprecated.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

No, but I do despise particular groups and find it very hard to visit with them. This problem is mine not theirs. It is on me.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

It is what is called the spirit of the antichrist, and it is considered to be an internal enemy within people. Christ seeks the union of all of the various kinds of people. Anti christ therefore is what divides them. Defeating anti christ is the long term challenge within Christianity. Once that is accomplished nothing will be impossible.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

There are around 2.4 billion christians schizmed into close on 50,000 different sects of Christianity (a number that grows weekly). Each one saying their interpretation of their chosen version (from over 200 different versions) of the bible. Each sect saying saying their sect observes the true Christianity. And any sect that is even closely different from their own are not true christians.

Is their rejection of other Christians judgemental... You bet it is

That 50,000 sects number is inflated.

Most likely there is only several hundred denominations. But even that doesn't make Christianity look very good. There are 380,000 churches in America and if there's 50,000 denominations than each denomination has on average only seven or eight churches. This is factually not correct. Most likely there's about 200-300 denominations in America alone and maybe 700-800 worldwide.

Atheists need to stop spreading this blatant lie to make Christianity appear more divided than it really is. Do you know how I know Christianity is divided? Because every Christian I come in cross with criticizes all the other Christians he or she knows about things they do that don't appear Christian to them.

I'm wrong. There's not several hundred Christian denominations and there's not just 50,000 either. There's 2.4 BILLION Christian denominations because each Christian has his or her own mind to determine to themselves what is Christian, and no two Christians are exactly the same.

 

[Kharisym]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

I've run into this in my hometown, only instead of dismissing baptists they were dismissing catholics. Anti-catholic sentiments run strong here.

The way I see religiosity is as a nested structure:

Beliefs about religion:

atheism

Humanism
Atheist+
Atheistic Buddhists
Individual Atheistic beliefs, "Atheism"
etc.​

theism

Wicca
Shintoism
Judaism
Islam
Christianity

Catholic
Baptist
etc.​

agnosticism

etc.
​

So there isn't no single true Christianity, there's various versions of it. All that's required to be Christian is to believe God is real, Jesus is his son, and that Jesus died on a cross for you.

 

[ChristineM]

That 50,000 sects number is inflated.

Most likely there is only several hundred denominations. But even that doesn't make Christianity look very good. There are 380,000 churches in America and if there's 50,000 denominations than each denomination has on average only seven or eight churches. This is factually not correct. Most likely there's about 200-300 denominations in America alone and maybe 700-800 worldwide.

Atheists need to stop spreading this blatant lie to make Christianity appear more divided than it really is. Do you know how I know Christianity is divided? Because every Christian I come in cross with criticizes all the other Christians he or she knows about things they do that don't appear Christian to them.

I'm wrong. There's not several hundred Christian denominations and there's not just 50,000 either. There's 2.4 BILLION Christian denominations because each Christian has his or her own mind to determine to themselves what is Christian, and no two Christians are exactly the same.

As i said close on 50,000. And most likely doesn't cut it.

America makes just 5% of the world population so it's not really a good example to impose the limited American dream on the rest of the world.

Estimations show there are more than 200 Christian denominations in the U.S. and a staggering 45,000 globally,​

Why does Christianity have so many denominations?.

Religious folk need to open their eyes to reality rather than accusing atheists of lying

But of those christians of different mindsets, between them they belong to close on 50,000 different sects of Christianity


BTW, 45,000 is old news i first heard on some 9 years ago. The number of sects increases by several per week. Which is why i estimate close on 50.000

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I also want to acknowledge that all of this is in technicolor. There is no black or white, or even grey.

Would you say that:
-Nontheistic Quakers are Christian? I would say No.
-Cultural Catholics are Christian? I would say No.
-Gnostics are Christian? I would say Yes.
-Mormons are Christian? I would say Yes.
-Jehovah Witnesses are Christian? I would say Yes.
-Seventh-Day Adventists are Christian? I would say Yes.
-People who believe in the Urantia Book are still Christian? I would say Yes.
-Baha'is are Christian? I would say No.
-Omnists are Christian? I would say Yes.
-Unitarian Universalists are Christian? I would say No.
-Messianic Jews are Christian? I would say Yes.
-Those associated with Unity Church Christian? I would say No.
-Progressive Christianity is Christian? I would say Yes.
-Self-Identified Christians who never read the Bible still Christian? I would say Yes.
-Self-Identified Christians who are not monotheistic or trinitarian still Christian? I would say No.
-Self-Identified Christians who don't believe that Jesus ever existed still Christian? I would say No.
-Self-Identified Christians who don't go to church or get baptized still Christian? I would say Yes.

All of these add up to millions upon millions of people and depending on how you see it, an "authentic" Christian could be all of these, none of these or somewhere between the two.

 

[metis]

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Even though I don't buy into "who is a true Scotsman?" bailiwick, Jesus said this:
Matthew 22[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

 

[Alien826]

I think many responses are considerably underestimating Christian denominations that may disagree on some details of interpretation and practice, but would never call themselves the only true Christians. I would hesitate to put a number or percentage on it, but my personal experience suggests that it is considerable.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

As i said close on 50,000. And most likely doesn't cut it.

If you watched that video it explains that number only exists if you count every denomination in each country. There isn't two-hundred denominations of Catholicism. There is one Roman Catholic Church. The only way you can believe that many denominations exist is if you frame it from how those Christians encyclopedias frame their models, which appears deceiving to most people. There's a lot of churches who exist without any denomination as well. Do you put those churches in their own independent denominations? That's likely going to inflate the number as well.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

On another debate a member who is a Christian dismissed some Christians, namely those Baptists of the Confederate South and Lutherans and Catholics of Nazi Germany, as "Christians in name only". That's interesting.

This implies and suggests that there are fake Christians, and thus by contrast, authentic Christians. So it got me to wondering if this is a common attitude among Christians, and if so, what is the profile of an "authentic Christian" versus "in name only".

So, do you have this attitude and belief?

If so, what makes an authentic Christian?

Does this smack of judgment?

Not sure. Jesus was Jewish.

 

[exchemist]

That 50,000 sects number is inflated.

Most likely there is only several hundred denominations. But even that doesn't make Christianity look very good. There are 380,000 churches in America and if there's 50,000 denominations than each denomination has on average only seven or eight churches. This is factually not correct. Most likely there's about 200-300 denominations in America alone and maybe 700-800 worldwide.

Atheists need to stop spreading this blatant lie to make Christianity appear more divided than it really is. Do you know how I know Christianity is divided? Because every Christian I come in cross with criticizes all the other Christians he or she knows about things they do that don't appear Christian to them.

I'm wrong. There's not several hundred Christian denominations and there's not just 50,000 either. There's 2.4 BILLION Christian denominations because each Christian has his or her own mind to determine to themselves what is Christian, and no two Christians are exactly the same.

I agree with your last statement. But the equivalent would be true of any religion.

 

[ChristineM]

If you watched that video it explains that number only exists if you count every denomination in each country. There isn't two-hundred denominations of Catholicism. There is one Roman Catholic Church. The only way you can believe that many denominations exist is if you frame it from how those Christians encyclopedias frame their models, which appears deceiving to most people. There's a lot of churches who exist without any denomination as well. Do you put those churches in their own independent denominations? That's likely going to inflate the number as well.

The catholic church, or any church is not counted as separate sects because they are in separate countries. I don't know who compiled that video but is seems to me they are using slight of hand to make Christianity look less fragmented.

Even religious organisations accept the huge number of denominations, the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated in 2012 that there were more than 43,000 denominations in 2012, up from 39.000 just 4 years earlier and that is expected to grow to 55,000 by 2025.

They estimate new denominations are formed at the rate of one every 10.5 hours (2.3 per day).

Q+A: List of Christian Denominations and Their Beliefs | Church Revelance