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What is a human? Not an easy question.


Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
You've taken me too literally. I was suggesting what apes might ask of us if they had the means to do so.

And to repeat for the last time, nobody is suggesting we treat apes like humans. They have very different needs, desires and capabilities. The point is that they are very similar to us in many ways and deserve respect on that basis. How to show that respect? Maybe not treating them as property to be used and abused at our whim? That could be a good start.
I never said I didn't respect animals. Not treating them like humans means we don't consider them human. There is no point in calling them human if we aren't going to treat them as human, and so the point is not that they have similarities but that they are so different that we cannot dwell with them.

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
You said "If apes could talk to us." That would be a different situation than what is. They cannot talk to us without intensive sign language training. They are large, dangerous, unhygienic. I think that's why we can't accept other apes as human. We cannot deal with them as direct neighbors. They'd chew our faces off the moment we got them angry.

They, in turn, cannot consider us to be like them. We are too afraid of germs, too weak, too focused upon houses and money and society and other things they care nothing for.
Just because they aren’t the same as consenting adult humans doesn’t mean they should lack all rights. Kids and certain disabled people have fewer rights than others because of their cognitive limitations. Why not just supply them with the minimum rights we give humans with equivalent issues?