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Featured What Irks You Most About Theists And Deists?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .


    mad as hell.png

    Turnabout is fair play so how about it all you atheists, agnostics, and non-believers.

    This isn't meant to get personal, ragging on your most detested theist or deist, but to consider the most irksome general approaches and conduct they display.

    Think in terms of, "They . . . ."


    .
     
    #1 Skwim, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  2. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    I get really annoyed with religious extremists who threaten people with hell and damnation if they don't convert.
     
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  3. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    They prefer pie over cake!


    Illogical!
     
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  4. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Some of them, definitely not all, think the world should be run in a sort of 700 club style fashion. That God will punish the nation if a woman has a needed abortion, etc.
     
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  5. Dekrikos Augustine

    Dekrikos Augustine Life Person Thing

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    As far as outspoken and hardcore theists go...
    The general reaction they seem to have when exposed to beliefs which are contradictory to their own.
    Especially when said contradictory beliefs are based on well rounded logic.

    The rest mostly don't bother me and I show them the same respect.
     
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  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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  7. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    They allow Unbelievers to live
     
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  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Interesting my post was deleted somehow
     
  9. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Without repeating myself what irks me about atheists is that you guys cannot see or experience the divine essence in life as I see it. God has allowed me to be fortunate enough to see this planet in such a way that is abnormal.
     
  10. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    That some of them say "the only reason you don't believe is because of /excessive pride/arrogance/love of sin/etc."

    Also those who take a dogmatic and inflexible approach to religion.
     
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  11. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    I'll give the same caveat as in the atheist thread. This doesn't apply to all theists or to theism itself.

    A major point of contention for me is the belief in Hell. I've gone into detail on this on another thread so I'll bring up what I wrote there:

    I also dislike the holier than thou attitude expressed by some believers. By virtue of their correct belief they hold that they're more moral than others or that the only reason others don't share their belief is because they're simply too ignorant/corrupt. This emphasis on the necessity of belief itself breeds some truly obnoxious people.

    The insistence that members of a country's dominant religion are persecuted is baffling. It almost invariably comes down to a belief that their brand of theism should be the universal standard and that members of their group should have free reign to do as they like to those they deem lesser.

    Which brings me to the big one... the view that their beliefs and no other should be the basis of government.

    Again I'll repeat the caveat. This is not a condemnation of all theists or theists in general.
     
    #11 Erebus, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  12. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Deists don't do much to annoy me as I rarely notice any, although every now and again you while get a deist here who smugly announces "theists are irrational and so are atheists, the only reasonable position to take is deism" while basking in their own sense of self-satisfaction while they explain why everyone else is foolish except them :D
     
  13. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance and/or condescension
    Perhaps some fallacies that religions or their adherents tend to use:

    1. Faulty Cause: (post hoc ergo propter hoc) mistakes correlation or association for causation, by assuming that because one thing follows another it was caused by the other.
    Perhaps commonly seen in such things as so-called miracles, prayer, good behaviour because one is religious, etc.

    2. Appeal to Ignorance: (argumentum ad ignorantiam) attempts to use an opponent's inability to disprove a conclusion as proof of the validity of the conclusion, i.e. "You can't prove I'm wrong, so I must be right."
    Seems that many religions rely on this - we can't prove that much of what they espouse is wrong, even down to the most basic belief - that God exists.

    3. Bifurcation: (either-or, black or white, all or nothing fallacy) assumes that two categories are mutually exclusive and exhaustive, that is, something is either a member of one or the other, but not both or some third category.
    Perhaps best seen by those believing that if one doesn't subscribe to their particular faith and beliefs, one is doomed to some nasty end, unlike them.

    4. False Dilemma: (a form of bifurcation) implies that one of two outcomes is inevitable, and both have negative consequences.
    As above, deeming that those not of the faith are doomed.

    5. Faulty Sign: (also includes argument from circumstance) wrongly assumes that one event or phenomenon is a reliable indicator or predictor of another event or phenomenon.
    Perhaps more so in the past than the present, when events were often tied to bad behaviour and such.

    6. Damning the Source: (ad hominem, sometimes called the genetic fallacy) attempts to refute an argument by indicting the source of the argument, rather than the substance of the argument itself.
    Obviously all atheists are wrong, and more the reverse of this, that is, that the truth only comes from the religious teachings.

    7. Tautology: (a sub-category of circular argument) defining terms or qualifying an argument in such a way that it would be impossible to disprove the argument. Often, the rationale for the argument is merely a restatement of the conclusion in different words.
    If anyone hasn't come across, 'because the Bible tells us so' in debates with Christians, then they haven't been around long.

    8. Appeal to Authority: (ipse dixit also called ad verecundiam sometimes) attempts to justify an argument by citing a highly admired or well-known (but not necessarily qualified) figure who supports the conclusion being offered.
    Much the same here, but applies to all the interpreters of religious writing too, who often just recycle the original material.

    9. Appeal to Tradition: (don't rock the boat or ad verecundiam) based on the principle of "letting sleeping dogs lie". We should continue to do things as they have been done in the past. We shouldn't challenge time-honored customs or traditions.
    Religion wouldn't be religion without this of course.

    10. Appeal to the Crowd: (ad populum or playing to the gallery) refers to popular opinion or majority sentiment in order to provide support for a claim. Often the "common man" or "common sense" provides the basis for the claim.
    Commonly used by those arguing about religious beliefs - the majority (who tend to have a religious belief) just cannot be wrong, even though they are split as to what belief they actually might have.

    11. Slippery Slope: (sometimes called a snowball argument or domino theory) suggests that if one step or action is taken it will invariably lead to similar steps or actions, the end results of which are negative or undesirable. A slippery slope always assume a chain reaction of cause-effect events which result in some eventual dire outcome.
    Commonly used concerning morals - where it is wrongfully assumed that, firstly, morals originated with religions (which they undoubtedly didn't), and secondly, that people would lack morals if they had no such religious beliefs to guide them. This is refuted by the fact that there is good evidence that the non-religious are just as, or more moral, than those who do have a religious belief.

    12. Appealing to Extremes: A fallacy very similar to slippery slope, which involves taking an argumentative claim or assertion to its extreme, even though the arguer does not advocate the extreme interpretation. The difference between the two fallacies is that appealing to extremes does not necessarily involve a sequence of causal connections.
    Perhaps seen best by those claiming that without a religious belief, life would have no meaning.

    13. Hypothesis Contrary to Fact: This fallacy consists of offering a poorly supported claim about what might have happened in the past or future if circumstances or conditions were other than they actually were or are. The fallacy also involves treating hypothetical situations as if they were fact.
    As above, in that all sorts of calamities are envisaged if religions fell into disrepute - which is often why we do have religious apologists squealing away like stuck pigs every time they feel threatened or where they see religious influence disappearing. Witness the bile from Giles Fraser when John Humphrys commented about the privileged place for Thought for The Day on Radio 4. (UK)

    14. Non Sequitur: (literally means "does not follow") in a general sense any argument which fails to establish a connection between the premises and the conclusion may be called a non-sequitar. In practice, however, the label non-sequitar tends to be reserved for arguments in which irrelevant reasons are offered to support a claim.
    Perhaps the rise of civilisation might be cited here, where religions are often seen as, or claim to be, the only driving force causing this.

    15. Red Herring: attempting to hide a weakness in an argument by drawing attention away from the real issue. A red herring fallacy is thus a diversionary tactic or an attempt to confuse or fog the issue being debated. The name of the fallacy comes from the days of fox hunting, when a herring was dragged across the trail of a fox in order to throw the dogs off the scent.
    Perhaps citing all the good that religions have done and disregarding any bad things that have happened.

    16. Inconsistency: advancing an argument that is self-contradictory, or that is based on mutually inconsistent premises.
    As in, “Their religious belief doesn't make sense but ours does!”

    17. Appeal to Probability: a statement that takes something for granted because it would probably be the case (or might be the case).
    Like the fact that life, and humans evolving, is just so improbable without some divine creator - and management team.

    18. Argument From Incredulity (appeal to common sense): "I cannot imagine how this could be true; therefore, it must be false."
    As above about the probability of life coming into existence.

    19. Appeal to Emotion: an argument is made due to the manipulation of emotions, rather than the use of valid reasoning.
    This is most obviously played upon by the religious in the way that such things as an afterlife are posited. Nice to think that things are better when we die even if this isn't necessarily true.

    20. Appeal to Fear: an argument is made by increasing fear and prejudice towards the opposing side.
    The opposite of the above - no enticements, but the stick instead, as in Hell.
     
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  14. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    Well that's your problem fallacious arguments are not automatically wrong. Thinking they are is the fallacy fallacy.
     
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    A fav. fallacy fallacy here is the ad hom ad hom.
     
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  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    In my experience, this isn’t exclusive to RF nor theological discourse.
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I don't see any record of a deleted post. There would be record, so either it didn't post or there was a database error. Sometimes deleted posts can be gotten back, but I see nothing.
     
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  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Of course not! It is common here tho.

    I would love to see a "godwin" type name
    and "you're out" penalty for it!
     
  19. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    More likely your imagination thinks the elusive god has created such an abnormality in you!
     
  20. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it's widespread
     
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