What in his name? God, man, man-god, & Anthropomorphism.

[Jayhawker Soule]

As a simple introduction we are made aware that YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists.

Out of curiosity, what do the words HAVAH and HOVEH (הוֹוֶה) mean respectively? Thanks.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Do we really need to give God a personal name to identify him. Is that not simply our need we are imposing upon God who claims to be one? Is not differentiating between ourselves "our need", not God's?

The assumption that God Himself claims to be One, which is explicit in your first question above, negates "our" need to fuss over names, with the consequence that "God", "ٱلل‍َّٰه", "אֱלֹהֵינוּ", would seem to be sufficient to address and to discuss the only God there is.
I think it's interesting to note that, according to Exodus 3:13-15, Moses asked God what His name was and God told Moses what it was,

• 13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
  14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
  15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.

Those who deny the credibility of Exodus 3:13-15 and/or reject its authority, of course, will not allow the verses to influence their decisions, beliefs, opinions, and practices.
On the other hand, those who accept the credibility of the verses and accept their authority will allow the verses to influence their decisions, beliefs, opinions, and practices.

 

[firedragon]

Out of curiosity, what do the words HAVAH and HOVEH (הוֹוֶה) mean respectively? Thanks.

I am no Hebrew expert mate. Yet I think Hoveh means today?

 

[firedragon]

The assumption that God Himself claims to be One, which is explicit in your first question above, negates "our" need to fuss over names, with the consequence that "God", "ٱلل‍َّٰه", "אֱלֹהֵינוּ", would seem to be sufficient to address and to discuss the only God there is.
I think it's interesting to note that, according to Exodus 3:13-15, Moses asked God what His name was and God told Moses what it was,

• 13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
  14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
  15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.

Those who deny the credibility of Exodus 3:13-15 and/or reject its authority, of course, will not allow the verses to influence their decisions, beliefs, opinions, and practices.
On the other hand, those who accept the credibility of the verses and accept their authority will allow the verses to influence their decisions, beliefs, opinions, and practices.

Yeah. The famous claim for the divine name. But its just saying I am who I am. And in the greek septuagint they translated it as ego eimi ho on, which means I am the being. Its not claiming a personal name like YHWH which is definitely deemed a name, or the name. I am not saying the bible does not claim God has a personal name, I am speaking to the thinking person.

I am not denying that God's name in your faith is biblical. Thats not my argument.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmm. You have a point to ponder you know! Thats awesome and kind of deeper than what it looks like on the surface. So I will ponder.

One must transcend the veil of names to find the Nameless.

"Let not names shut you out as by a veil from Him Who is their Lord, even the name of Prophet, for such a name is but a creation of His utterance."

Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 172

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

That supports that the One God can be seen in the Names of all the Messengers. 'I will be what I will be'.

It also proves that Love of Names veils us from us recognising the One same God in other Names that have revealed God, as God so willed. I will be what I will be.

The Holy Spirit emenates all those Names and none of the Names can be seperated from that spirit, which is the source of creation, given of God. The First and the Last, The Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Regards Tony

 

[Terry Sampson]

Thats not my argument

I understand. Your argument is that, assuming that there is only one god, any name for that god other than "God" is superfluous. And my point is that assuming that there is only one god is a faith assumption, and so is assuming that any name for that god other than "God" is superfluous.

IMO, the only people who don't make faith statements about "God" are non-theists.

The curiosity of non-theists will very likely be limited to wondering what a god is or what the difference is between a god and God.
Polytheists, like the Athenians, may refer to God-with-a-capital-G as "the Unknown God" to distinguish your god from their other gods.
Curious Mormons may ask: are you referring to Father God, Mother God, Jesus Christ God, or the Holy Spirit God?
Trinitarian monotheists will understand, by one's insistence that "God" is sufficient to identify and discuss God, that one is probably a Muslim, a poorly-informed Christian, or just a casual Christian.
Jehovah's Witnesses will understand, by one's failure to refer to God by the name "Jehovah", one is referring to a non-existent, satanic, pagan, omnipresent god, not their bounded (i.e. non-omnipresent) God.
Meanwhile, IMO, it'll be a proverbial "cold day in hell" before a knowledgeable, traditional Jew will concede that Muslims and Jews believe in and/or worship the same God.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Out of curiosity, what do the words HAVAH and HOVEH (הוֹוֶה) mean respectively? Thanks.

I am no Hebrew expert mate. Yet I think Hoveh means today?

But wait, mate, are you not the amateur pedagogue that instructed us as follows?

... YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists.

At the very least you should be able to tell us what the word "Havah" means. No?

(And, no, HOVEH (הוֹוֶה) does not mean today.)

 

[Bird123]

YHWH, Allah are two names of God. Of course YHWH is more specific, Allah is generic. But many Muslims too take Allah as a personal name of God. Any name may have some meaning but these two names are very different in meaning. As a simple introduction we are made aware that YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists. He is the self sufficient. Very similar to the arabic attribute describing God in the Quran al-qayyoom. Its basically the same meaning.

Allah is a generic word that means "The God" or "Al-ilah". Of course there are some who oppose this understanding because they believe Allah is a unique, personal name of God. Well, it is interchangeable actually because the word The God can only refer to one person so you want it to be a name, yeah fine. Doesn't make a difference because conceptually its one God.

Nevertheless the question remains if humans have a want to anthropomorphise God and give him human attributes. Do we really need to give God a personal name to identify him. Is that not simply our need we are imposing upon God who claims to be one? Is not differentiating between ourselves "our need", not God's?

You are right. More people express God in who they are, what they want, or to control others.

God doesn't hand out wisdom and knowledge. Knowledge must be Discovered. Wisdom is acquired on this journey to Discover knowledge.

As we all know, Discovery takes work. Further, Discovery is rarely an easy thing. It has never been served up on a silver platter. Perhaps, this is the reason so many have decided Beliefs are good enough.

Real Truth will never always be an agreeable thing. Beliefs make it easy to alter things to make them more agreeable. Instead of Discovering who God really is, we can make God just like we want God to be. Since everyone knows mankind, let's just make God like us, only we will throw in a lot more POWER!!! Is this really God????

OK!OK! Let's get back to Truth. We all already know God whether we know we know God or not. Further, you are right. Names are not needed. Everyone already knows who everyone is. This might be confusing for some, however there will come a time when it will all add up.

Mankind is a controlling lot. This is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. How much better would the world be if everyone wasn't trying to control everything? How much easier would it be to see the Real Truth that stares us all in the face?

I realize Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however Real Truth brings Understanding and leads everyone forward to a Higher Level where creating a Heavenly state is possible.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[firedragon]

But wait, mate, are you not the amateur pedagogue that instructed us as follows?

​

At the very least you should be able to tell us what the word "Havah" means. No?

(And, no, HOVEH (הוֹוֶה) does not mean today.)

Mate. Hoveh means today or current time.

If you are looking to find some way to insult someone and find faults with them to dismiss them by hook or crook its an attempt of vanity and absurdity. Also, the questions you are asking are absolutely irrelevant.

 

[firedragon]

I understand. Your argument is that, assuming that there is only one god, any name for that god other than "God" is superfluous. And my point is that assuming that there is only one god is a faith assumption, and so is assuming that any name for that god other than "God" is superfluous.

IMO, the only people who don't make faith statements about "God" are non-theists.

The curiosity of non-theists will very likely be limited to wondering what a god is or what the difference is between a god and God.
Polytheists, like the Athenians, may refer to God-with-a-capital-G as "the Unknown God" to distinguish your god from their other gods.
Curious Mormons may ask: are you referring to Father God, Mother God, Jesus Christ God, or the Holy Spirit God?
Trinitarian monotheists will understand, by one's insistence that "God" is sufficient to identify and discuss God, that one is probably a Muslim, a poorly-informed Christian, or just a casual Christian.
Jehovah's Witnesses will understand, by one's failure to refer to God by the name "Jehovah", one is referring to a non-existent, satanic, pagan, omnipresent god, not their bounded (i.e. non-omnipresent) God.
Meanwhile, IMO, it'll be a proverbial "cold day in hell" before a knowledgeable, traditional Jew will concede that Muslims and Jews believe in and/or worship the same God.

True.

 

[_93]

Your argument is that, assuming that there is only one god, any name for that god other than "God" is superfluous.

I think it goes further, that even the name "God" is superfluous, seeing that it is still language.

 

[firedragon]

You are right. More people express God in who they are, what they want, or to control others.

God doesn't hand out wisdom and knowledge. Knowledge must be Discovered. Wisdom is acquired on this journey to Discover knowledge.

As we all know, Discovery takes work. Further, Discovery is rarely an easy thing. It has never been served up on a silver platter. Perhaps, this is the reason so many have decided Beliefs are good enough.

Real Truth will never always be an agreeable thing. Beliefs make it easy to alter things to make them more agreeable. Instead of Discovering who God really is, we can make God just like we want God to be. Since everyone knows mankind, let's just make God like us, only we will throw in a lot more POWER!!! Is this really God????

OK!OK! Let's get back to Truth. We all already know God whether we know we know God or not. Further, you are right. Names are not needed. Everyone already knows who everyone is. This might be confusing for some, however there will come a time when it will all add up.

Mankind is a controlling lot. This is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. How much better would the world be if everyone wasn't trying to control everything? How much easier would it be to see the Real Truth that stares us all in the face?

I realize Real Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however Real Truth brings Understanding and leads everyone forward to a Higher Level where creating a Heavenly state is possible.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Well, very well said.

 

[EsonauticSage]

And still the Name is a way to acquire nearness to God

I don't think it's the name inasmuch as it is that the mouth needs to resonate certain frequencies. Whether it be "Yod He Vav He" over and over, or "Al La" over and over, or "OM" over and over. It needs something to build off of.
Names should, IMHO, always be taken for their aural and resonant qualities above all else. Hence why ritual is so important and central to all true religions.

 

[firedragon]

I don't think it's the name inasmuch as it is that the mouth needs to resonate certain frequencies. Whether it be "Yod He Vav He" over and over, or "Al La" over and over, or "OM" over and over. It needs something to build off of.
Names should, IMHO, always be taken for their aural and resonant qualities above all else. Hence why ritual is so important and central to all true religions.

Well, I must agree.

Yet I am wondering what you meant by "Al La". You mean as two syllables to pronounce in chanting?

 

[sun rise]

sun rise said: ↑

Why YAH/YHWH | The Shalom Center asserts that YHWH if you try to pronounce it is just breathing. And further, that web page says As the Siddur (prayer-book) says, "Nishmat kol chai tivarech et SHIMCHA." ("The breathing of all life praises your Name.") For the Breathing of all life IS Your Name.


No. Someone I know says "That" with hand pointed upwords rather than use "God".

But there is a use for names in meditation and vocal prayer. Someone referred to this as "Chant the sweet name of God". Muslims and Zoroastrians explicitly have what are called "Names of God" .

True. But what does that signify? Just give a synopsis if you dont mind.

You wrote YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists.

My response was to point out that there's another way of looking at "YHWH".

You also asked Do we really need to give God a personal name to identify him.

My answer was 'no' with an illustration of another way of referring to Divinity.

 

[EsonauticSage]

Well, I must agree.

Yet I am wondering what you meant by "Al La". You mean as two syllables to pronounce in chanting?

Yes that's what I mean.

 

[firedragon]

Yes that's what I mean.

Hmm. Thats an interesting point. Sorry I tend not to think of spirituality of us human beings and what we as human beings sometimes may need in order to reach such a level. Thats honestly because I have not studied the subject of spirituality, I only know the text and theology.

Thus, I take your post as something to understand. Only problem is it would take a long long time to study this in humans as it would take extensive research. Anyway, thanks a lot for that. I really appreciate it. And I must agree with you.

 

[firedragon]

sun rise said: ↑


But there is a use for names in meditation and vocal prayer. Someone referred to this as "Chant the sweet name of God". Muslims and Zoroastrians explicitly have what are called "Names of God" .


You wrote YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists.

My response was to point out that there's another way of looking at "YHWH".

You also asked Do we really need to give God a personal name to identify him.

My answer was 'no' with an illustration of another way of referring to Divinity.

Okay okay I got it. Apologies to clarify but I cannot respond without clarifying what I dont understand. Thanks for taking the time.

You are right.

 

[stvdv]

I don't think it's the name inasmuch as it is that the mouth needs to resonate certain frequencies.

My Master explained that it's about "Love". Even if frequency is right, but there is no Love, it's not right.