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Featured What in his name? God, man, man-god, & Anthropomorphism.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    YHWH, Allah are two names of God. Of course YHWH is more specific, Allah is generic. But many Muslims too take Allah as a personal name of God. Any name may have some meaning but these two names are very different in meaning. As a simple introduction we are made aware that YHWH if derived from the word Havah means he exists. He is the self sufficient. Very similar to the arabic attribute describing God in the Quran al-qayyoom. Its basically the same meaning.

    Allah is a generic word that means "The God" or "Al-ilah". Of course there are some who oppose this understanding because they believe Allah is a unique, personal name of God. Well, it is interchangeable actually because the word The God can only refer to one person so you want it to be a name, yeah fine. Doesn't make a difference because conceptually its one God.

    Nevertheless the question remains if humans have a want to anthropomorphise God and give him human attributes. Do we really need to give God a personal name to identify him. Is that not simply our need we are imposing upon God who claims to be one? Is not differentiating between ourselves "our need", not God's?
     
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  2. Power Stone

    Power Stone Unknown Member

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    I call him Bill
     
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  3. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Good for u.
     
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  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    So you believe that Allah is a name invented by men for god? It was my understanding that the names of god are given by god to man in order for man to develop a personal relationship with god. If I take what you said about "Allah", that Allah is a generic word for god (although I heard that there's another generic word for god, Illaha): okay, there's this all-power entity. I don't know what it is, merely that it can do all. What does that have to do with me?
    If that entity then gives me its name, I can identify it and then say: okay, I have an ID for the entity, that is, I have a form of characterization.
    Based on such a characterization, I can now attempt to understand what the existence of this entity means for me.

    In other words, arguably, yes, we have a need to connect with God. For this, God gave us His name and attributes and other things so we would be able to connect with Him.
     
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  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I think you misunderstood the post. No one invented it. People turned the obviously mentioned word into a personal name. Thats the discussion. Please read the post once more to understand it better, said with all due respect.

    I dont believe God gave names to man. I believe God is just God, he doesn't need a name. That is why in Islam or rather the Quran the word Allah means "The God". Thats it. It is a name, it is a description, it is a generic word, it means one God, "The God" which means there is only one. etc etc. How ever you may take it.

    You mean "ilaha" not "illaha"

    ilah means divinity or a deity. Allah is Al+ilah. I believe I already gave a synopsis in the OP.

    This necessity is for humans because we are many. God is one. He doesn't need to name himself in order to differentiate himself with a name like Harel or John. I hope you understand the point. God is just God.
     
  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    Personally I think the teaching from the Gods are more important then their name, but since my belief is that there are countless Gods and Buddhas, their name is important so we can point toward which God or Buddha we speak of.
     
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  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    I see the Names reveal the attributes that eminate from the Essence of God.

    Regards Tony
     
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  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't say in your OP that the word became a name. What it says is "But many Muslims too take Allah as a personal name of God". It was my understanding that this is something that, for all we know (and in the end, the vast majority of those reading your posts are non-Arabs, non-Muslims), these two understandings were alway simultaneous and it didn't appear to me that you wrote anything to suggest the contrary.
    In an internet search to make sure I was not mistaken in identifying the word, I saw both illaha and ilaha, so I don't know why that really matters. Here in Israel there are multiple variant spellings for many things that are transliterated into English. But if it's important to you, I'll use ilaha.

    In other words, you say that yes, ilaha means god. And Allah is used to refer to a specific god. Does this not mean that Allah is the name of that specific god? Why else have the two words?


    Anyway, I see that I'm continuously misunderstanding your posts, and that that you wrote now that I have once again misunderstood you came as no surprise, so I suppose it's best if I stay away from your posts for the time being. Have a pleasant day.
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Allah is a generic word that means "The God" or "Al-ilah". Of course there are some who oppose this understanding because they believe Allah is a unique, personal name of God. Well, it is interchangeable actually because the word The God can only refer to one person so you want it to be a name, yeah fine. Doesn't make a difference because conceptually its one God.

    Mate. There is nothing called "illaha". Its "ilaha". illaha is what some people use in English to depict the same word ilaha. I really dont know how else to explain this. The arabic word is alif, lam, ha. There is no double "L" in it.

    ilaha=god
    Allah=The God

    Allah is a word made out of The or AL in arabic and the word ilaha. AL+ilaha=Allah. Its just a word.

    Ill give you an example which maybe understandable. Your question is like asking "why use Theos and Ho Theos" in Greek. Or "Elohim and Ha Elohim". They are not two words. Its one word with a definitive article "the".

    I am not an expert in Hebrew mate so excuse me if the explanation is not sound.

    Your prerogative brother. Cheers.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Hey. You nailed it conceptually.
     
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  11. EsonauticSage

    EsonauticSage Between extremes

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    To paraphrase Ali, and other members of the Ahlulbayt - it's all about the meaning and not the name, it is the meaning worshiped and not the name.
    On an objective level God is totally nameless.
     
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  12. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I must agree with that.
     
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  13. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    :D:D:D
     
  14. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    And still the Name is a way to acquire nearness to God
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Hey, did I make a mistake? :)
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    That shows its our need, not gods.
     
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    No, I loved your lines
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, indeed. And it also shows God's Grace, knowing we need the baby steps (Name+Form) to get to the next level (Nameless+Formless)
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I used the Green Smileys, because others might have problems with it, but I really think you nailed it.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Haha. I thought I have made some silly grammatical error. I read that like ten times after seeing your smiley faces, green ones at that. ;)
     
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