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Featured What If You're Wrong

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by thomas t, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't lack compassion. In the context I was talking about I was saying that if Christianity is wrong I am not judged for following God.

    Jesus came for spiritual liberation, not for social liberation. Spiritual liberation means reconciling people and God.
     
  2. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    When you come up with these sorts of accusations against the Highest, you would have to show at least that people suddenly stop sinning in hell. As I said. Here I had to reiterate myself, but the rest of your post was actually replying to my post without just repeating what has been said already.

    So, thank you for the rest of your post.

    Let's tackle the new points you've brought up:
    my point was, a person may sin again in hell. Not heaven. Once they sin in hell then the correct action would be to punish it, as you say.

    Ah - so now you think that because people could sin in hell, they could perhaps sin in heaven again, too? In a way that people in heaven could end up in hell?
    Well, possibly they could commit a sin in heaven. I don't find a Bible verse ruling that out, at least.

    However, a Christian made it clear that he is able to apologize. A Christian said sorry to God while on earth already. That's how you become a Christian, in my view. First step is "sorry God, please forgive!"
    This may serve as an indication that he will be able to do so in heaven also, in my view. A sin + the due apology is totaly different from people just sinning, I think.

    Furthermore, Bible shows there are many occasions in which newly become Christians have been willing to clean up the mess they've produced while the weren't Christians before. See Luke 19:8, for instance.
    So, this again serves as an indication that if someone commits a sin in heaven, they would be willing to assume the responsibility over it and clean the mess up.

    ----
    Lets get back to your criticism of an eternal hell.
    Even if you apply a limited punishment for all sins... a potentially unlimited amount of sins after death would require an unlimited amount of limited punishments, too.

    Moreover, Bible says there is also a gulf between those in heaven and those who are not, see Luke 16:26.
    Lets assume someone serves a (limited) sentence of punishment in hell. After it is finished, that does not mean he is automatically transferred to the other side of the gulf.
    To my knowlegde, people that already spend some 20 years in prison on earth often don't have any idea where to go once the term is finished. They don't have contacts outside, no flats, no place to go simply. And mentioned gulf would mean that, additionally, you would have to pay for the transport over it. That's at least how I interpret the situation. Who would be there to pay for it? you?

    These are all hypothetical thoughts.
    However, they are necessary to show that, before you make these unfounded accusations against God, you better make up your mind about how these kinds of problems should be handled otherwise. This is at least my opinion concerning your point.

    edited to change the order of my points
     
    #362 thomas t, Dec 15, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    What did I tell you about quoting single verses out of context? In context that verse does not support you. That is merely an interpretation that you put upon it.
     
  4. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Except its not really a debate between theists and non theists, its a debate between Christians and atheists that has been going on since Darwin. I think you completely missed my point and Dawkin's from the video) about belief being largely culturally determined. My comment has nothing to do with the Baha'i Faith other than it being a religion that is non-Christian along with Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and many more besides.
     
  5. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Then why most, if not all Christians pray, and ask others to pray for them, so that they delay their meeting with Jesus when diagnosed with terminal cancer?

    Imagine Jesus: those guys do not seems much in a hurry to join me in heaven. And they expect Me to help them to stay where they are. Weird.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  6. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    Well, I can only report from my own experience, first hand, in my own extended family. For someone I actually knew well. The only person I've actually known really well that died of cancer and I was there to see it near the end, meeting him in the last few months.

    There may have been a request for prayer early on perhaps, long before the cancer was considered terminal (he lived far away in another state also, so I wasn't around for that).

    But, what I do know, from later, after the cancer was said to be terminal, then when I met him (it had been a few years since I'd seen him) he was not asking for prayer for healing -- not asking for that -- but instead, pretty amazingly, was giving everyone this kind of perfect consideration and listening and warmth/love. It was really something.

    That's my own direct experience first hand with someone I know really well (closer inner circle of the people we know the best, from hundreds of hours of interaction).

    We have at times heard in church a request to pray for someone with cancer, but not if it's 'terminal' so far as I can remember, but instead in those cases an entirely different kind of prayer was asked for when it's terminal: usually about helping the family. I cannot actually remember though praying for anyone with a non-terminal cancer that then died of cancer. But...we are mortal, and all of these temporary bodies are going to be returning to nature --

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    At least in the Christian faith (when it is really faith), we do look forward to passing on to be with Him.
     
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  7. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    PXIRA, huh?
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    What If You're Wrong
    Friend @thomas t !

    I , for one, get that one is definitely wrong in following sinful Paul and the sinful Pauline-Church of whatever (32000+) denomination, please.
    One should instead, I understaqnd, follow the truthful teachings of Jesus and read from the Book Jesus and Mary used to read and worhsip and pray to "God-the-Father" the way Jesus and Mary used to worship and pray, please. Right friend, please?

    Regards
     
  9. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    what do you think I would answer?
    Do you think that I say "I fully agree: rip out half of the Bible!"... or would you rather think that I say "listen to all the Bible!"....? please?
    I mean as a Christian, how do you think I would answer this question?
     
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